Discussion created on 01/03/2020

Using Phytase Matrix Value with the LCF

Good Evening I have a question regarding using the phytase matrix value in the least cost formulation software. Should I enter the Calcium value, or should I leave it Zero? Dealing with the calcium figure is not like the others, because we don't have Total calcium, and available calcium in the formulation, we have only calcium which will assume that it is 100% available. for the energy, we have Total energy and ME, for phosphorus we have the total and the available, Amino acids we have total and digestible. but for the calcium we have only one figure, so I believe that the figure for the calcium should be Zero, because we assume that the calcium is 100% available. Please share with me your ideas.

remove_red_eye 1464 forum 21 bar_chart Statistics share print
Influencers "Likes": Ricardo Hume
Share :
Haroon Mushtaq Haroon Mushtaq
PostDoc in Poultry Nutrition
January 9, 2020
In practical formulation, nutritionists usually consider P & Ca as per the recommendation of 'phytase company', keeping the rest of the nutrients escaped to provide benefit, if any, to birds.
As for as terminology of 'P' is concerned, it's being used as 'non-phytate' and 'digestible'. The value of both is different for different sources (e.g.) MCP has 100% non-phytate P whereas its digestible value is 55% (as per the latest work of Ravindran).
Why 'Ca' is taken as the total is, obviously, its low price. However, Anwar (2017) recently found out the digestible Ca value of different ingredients which range from 28-30%, for example, for canola meal.
January 9, 2020

Hello Rami. You do need to take account of the Ca release from the phytase. You have 2 options. The first is to duplicate your Ca values on all raw materials and re-name this Ca analytical - no value on phytase. You use this for QC. Call the duplicate Ca biological and in this case, include the Ca release value on the phytase. Ca biological you use so set the animal requirements; Ca analytical has no constraints and just gives a QC target.
The second option is to formulate to digestible calcium depending upon what species you are referring to. We have some raw material values now for pigs but not complete as yet (unless maize/Soya/DDGS/lime based). Hans Stein and the group at Illinois, and Kansas State University, have a number of papers published on DCa in pigs. Mick

January 9, 2020

I think you should use calcium matrix value of phytase, otherwise, calcium to phosphorus imbalance (the ratio more than 2) occurs.

Dr Maikano M Ari Dr Maikano M Ari
Animal Nutritionist
January 10, 2020

Mohammad Hosein Shahir I agree with this position especially in rations where phytase is not added

January 9, 2020

Hello there. Mick´s comments are, to me, absolutely correct! Phytases do have an effect in making tot Ca of the diet more available to the bird. But to reflect this effect correctly without making mistakes in what real Ca can be measured in your feed, then use 2 Ca values for each ingredient: Ca analytical - I call it Ca label - and tot Ca (biological by Mick). However, for the phytase, just apply the second value, the tot Ca (biological).
When running LCF and fixing your min values, then apply tot Ca (biological); the program with target that min in the most economical way and you´ll get two Ca values: tot Ca (biological) and the Ca-label. This one will indicate the real Ca which eventually could be analyzed in the feed.
In this way, you optimize the phytase effect and reduce real Ca in your feeds.
Digestible Ca values for pigs are already available (Mick´s comment is accurate).

By from Colmenar Viejo, here in Spain.

January 9, 2020

Hello there. Based on my personal experience with phytase, beside considering phytase nPP equivalency (the value depend upon phytase origin and level), one should be very careful in considering phytase matrix value (for other nutrients such as amino acid, Ca, etc.) in practical diet formulation.

Dr Riaz Dr Riaz
Animal Nutritionist
January 13, 2020
Ahmad Karimi your experience is correct and practical
Parhizkar Parhizkar
Marketing Manager
January 9, 2020

Hello, everybody. I would like to know in your opinion what is the difference between Total and digestible Ca? How can this difference affect on our formulation? i think that we don't leave ca level Zero. Because with using Phytase we improve availability of Ca.

January 10, 2020
Hello. Any nutrient defined as digestible is, in principle, potentially of use to the animal. Total has much less meaning vs digestible from the nutritive stand point.
Amin Nahal Amin Nahal
January 11, 2020

Should used matrix with CA because when good phytase work and broke IP6 to IP5 to IP4 to ....IP CA well be free to used and strach and protein and the important sodium

January 12, 2020
Dear Rami

Unfortunately still many of the nutrients in feed specification for poultry is crude, like CP , CF , EE and of course Ca.
Ca is usually over supplied to the poultry diet from many sources like:
Drinking water (as a rule of thumb poultry take water twice the feed intake) , Carrier in premix , concentrate , pro-prebiotics also as anti-caking agent in SBM.

For example when you add 1 kg of probiotic to the diet, practically you added 1 kg of CaCo3 that need to be taken under consideration.
Also, consider that excess Ca has negative impact of Phytaze activity via complexing with Phytic acid in the small intestine and forming an insoluble complex via binding to the active site of phytase enzyme.

Then my understanding about matrix value is as below:
1) Any source of Ca coming to the poultry diet (water, additives and so on)
2) Adjustment on the matrix value of Phytaze, as matrix values of enzymes are based on the average substrate content in the raw materials. Substrate is not fixed therefore matrix value should not be fixed also.
3) Considering both Ca and Av.P matrix in phytas

Phytase matrix value
Although each phytase product has its own matrix value that published by the manufacturing company, these matrices are not derived in the same way. The matrix involves values for Av. phosphorus, calcium, protein/amino acids, energy, and sodium.
Research results and field experiences revealed that there should not be a fixed matrix value for phytase in all feed formulations. Poultry nutritionists can have their own matrix values that can be more reserved and have more safety margin than the values published by the manufacturing companies.
The most important characteristics influencing phytase efficacy include activity in the upper digestive tract, affinity to phytate, and resistance to degradation.

1) pH : pH of 2.5 to 5.5 is the optimum range at which maximum benefits are obtained from phytase. Research studies revealed that bacterial phytase is more effective than fungal phytase at the above mentioned pH range.
2) Resistance to endogenous protease : Phytase enzyme is a proteinaceous compound, so, it can be susceptible to hydrolysis by pepsin enzyme in the GIT. Bacterial phytases revealed higher resistant against hydrolysis than fungal phytases.
3) Resistance to temperature : Due to its protein nature, phytase enzyme can be inactivated if exposed to a high temperature (above 70-75 ° C) as that occurs during feed conditioning and pelletizing. If the temperature exceeds 80 ° C as that occur during feed pelletizing, phytase enzyme should be protected either by coating or by providing it in an intrinsically thermostable form. Unprotected phytases can be utilized in pelletized feed in liquid form via spraying on the feed post pelleting.
4) Effect of NSP enzymes :
a) elimination of the nutrient encapsulating effect of cell walls
b) reduction of digesta viscosity (Kim et al., 2005)
c) NSP enzymes may also increase the efficacy of phytase by eliminating the phytate chelating effects of NSP (Kim et al., 2005).is because NSP have the capacity to bind multivalent cations (Debon and Tester, 2001), which associate with phytate in both feedstuffs and in digesta.

5) Dosing and mixing errors ( mixing and dosing errors are almost every where )
6) Availability and variation of the substrates
7) Dietary Factors
a) Mineral content
Although doubted in some literature, high level of dietary calcium has been reported to adversely affect phytase efficacy either via complexing with phytic acid in the small intestine and forming an insoluble complex or via binding to the active site of phytase enzyme. Similarly, higher levels of iron or zinc make insoluble complex with phytate and subsequently decrease the phosphorus releasing efficacy of phytase. Recently, high dietary sodium has been revealed to decrease phytase activity.
Inspection of the mineral content of farm drinking water should be conducted at least once per year as most water of desert areas contains very high level of some minerals that could hinder phytase activity. Phytases that efficiently hydrolyze phytate in the proximal gut (crop and proventriculus) will counteract the adverse effect of high dietary minerals.
b) Dietary phytate level
Although phytase activity (phytate hydrolysis) is increased in diets containing low level of phytic acid, the absolute amount of liberated phosphorus is high in diets containing high level of phytic acid compared to those with low phytic acid. The degree of phytate hydrolysis and phosphorus release was at its highest level in rice polish followed by rice bran, wheat bran, sunflower meal, wheat middling, canola meal, soybean meal, corn gluten meal, full fat soy, wheat, corn, barley, sorghum, and corn DDGS respectively.
c) Feed acidification
As the acidic pH is the optimum pH for phytase activity, adding organic acids in the feed such as citric acid has been reported to increase phytase activity.
8) Feed conditioning and pelleting ( heat damage ) :
Enzyme coating, granulation or post-pelleting applications have been proposed to counteract such effects
9) Granulation size

I hope this can help

January 14, 2020
Ali Afsar
Dr. Md. Zaminur Rahman Dr. Md. Zaminur Rahman
DVM, MSc Poultry, PGT-on Poultry Disease Control and Prevention Pedagogic Skills by FAO-Tuft University of America.
January 21, 2020
Ali Afsar nicely written.

January 29, 2020
Dear Ali Afsar , you are absolutely right! I confirm your opinion using my personal 20-years experience with an phytase and NSP-enzymes.
January 13, 2020
Ricardo Hume Ricardo Hume
Dpto. Técnico Comercial de Cladan Nutrición Animal
January 21, 2020
If we don't use a "digestible calcium" value for the ingredients I think Rami is right saying that we should put a 0% value for calcium in the phytase matrix because the enzyme does not provide calcium by itself.
January 21, 2020
Dear Ali Afsar
Very good nice presentation covering all possible aspect to be care for for getting maximum from a phytase enzyme.Direct and indirect effect of different minerals and other enzyme regarding it enhancing efficacy of Phytase enzyme.Hope more detailed work on points highlighted will improve use of enzyme and performance of feeds.keep sharing more.
gaurang singh gaurang singh
February 5, 2020

Input on supper dosing of phytase. That’s more than 500fyt/kg feed to 1000fy/kg feed.

February 5, 2020
Hello again. Respecting all opinions, from my experience, I would certainly use a tot Ca value as a matrix - the phytase has an sparing effect of Ca by avoiding its chelation to the phytate-, but then for the rest of the ingredients I would add to the existing tot Ca, a new value - identical to the total Ca-, called "label", "analytical"..., you name it. After the LCF exercise, you´ll get the solution with: i) tot Ca - including the value provided by the phytase matrix - and; ii) label Ca, lower than the tot Ca, but this will be the one to reflect in the label, since it should match in reality with the Ca coming from all other ingredients but the phytase.

If still not clear, then I will accept my educational skills are poor. Have a great day you all, Rafa, from Colmenar Viejo, Spain.
February 12, 2020
Yes, I like.
February 19, 2020

Ali Afsar and all other sector partners, thanks for your valuable comments and information sharing. Thank you to all of you...

Would you like to discuss about this topic: Using Phytase Matrix Value with the LCF?
Engormix reserves the right to delete and/or modify comments. See more details
Post a comment
Create new discussion :
If this discussion does not cover topics of interest or raises new questions, you can create another discussion.
Consult a professional in private:
If you have a specific problem you can perform a consultation privately to a professional in our community.
saman rashid
saman rashid
assistant professor
  Apo, Armed Forces Europe, Middle East, & Canada, Estados Unidos de América
Copyright © 1999-2020 Engormix - All Rights Reserved