Discussion created on 08/30/2017

Very important to avoid Co2 accumulation during brooding

It is common observation that chicks are seen well distributed in the shed after arrival and with good start of feeding and drinking but since no adequate fresh air is brought in to the house with speed that cant lift Co2 from chick level and to expel it out. Poultry farmer thinks of saving heating cost and is avoiding even opening air inlets for first 24 hours results poor chick activity and drowsiness in the chicks which are found sleeping and resulting poor feed intake. What happens when Co2 accumulates at chick level due to its property of heavy gas , it makes layer/zone on top of chicks and difficult to remove from house unless one must run minimum ventilation with 800-1000 feet per minutes air speed from inlets which takes Co2 out of the shed. When noted 3rd day of chick age where inlet speed was just 500 ft/min and air cant reach to the center of the house Co2 level was >3500 ppm & chicks were almost 90% were sleeping and resting with crop fill 75% only.

Ashra Ali Qureshi
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
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September 6, 2017

Good, very important.

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Martin Rishoj Martin Rishoj
Consultant
September 7, 2017
CO2 is important, but remember the temperature. I have seen several examples of inactive chicks caused by low temperature. Depending on the conditions you should start your chicks at 33-35 degrees C. If air temperature is too low, the chicks will stay inactive to save energy and try to maintain body temperature.

For sure a low CO2 is important, but I do not think that levels at 3.000-4.000 will make the chicks sleepy. It might reduce the speed of development, but sleepy chicks will normally not occur before CO2 levels are above 5.000 ppm.
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September 7, 2017
I think the weather conditions should also be put into consideration, I believe it can determine the condition in the pens whether low or high temperature, and low or high Co2
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September 21, 2017
During first week of chicks life brooding temperature is most important to achieve proper growth and simultaneously cross ventilation is also must to eliminate ammonia.co2 .H2s to control respiratory diseases.
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Dr Wisal M.Khan Dr Wisal M.Khan
Doctor of vet Med
September 21, 2017
CO2 is important to eliminate at any stage and during brooding it is even more important, good temp and Mini ventilation is important, Low temp can be maintained by using the latest Modern heating types of equipment, Further low activities in early brooding ages should be Notice for Increased CO2 in the house.
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September 22, 2017
I believe the Carbon is the heavier component in the Co2 combination and thus stays in the brooding house. Sometimes good ventilation at the expense of heat could be the solution and bear in mind hot air rises.

Depending on the type of brooding house you utilise, you could have convention current or brooding heat escaping through the roof whilst Co2 stays at chick level and causes dampness and ammonia in return.
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Waqar Waqar
CEO
September 22, 2017
Perhaps 7000 ppm is the threshold level. Since I know broiler farmers in Newzealand use CO2 setting at 7000 ppm on controllers to adjust firinimum ventilation to save expensive fuel cost in cold weather
WAQAR

The Automation Co
Rawalpindi
Pakistan
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Ashra Ali Qureshi Ashra Ali Qureshi
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
September 26, 2017
Allowing 7000 ppm your business will be badly affected , please do not let birds exposed for such a high level of Co2.
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September 25, 2017
Dear All!

I am surprised with some figures suggested, regarding CO2 level at the chicken house. The figures can be that high, in some cases, due to the equipment, that can be not that precise. Otherwise, my CO2 measurements, that I make continuously, show that above 1500 ppm it is too much and the birds start sleeping, gatting lazy. When the minimun ventilation, transiction ventiliation of tunel ventilation are correct, there is no reason to have more than 1000 ppm of CO2. Normaly, I finnd below 500 ppm. In birds with more than 21 days, high CO2 is followed by high amonia and umidity.

So, the CO2 equipment is fundamental to visit chicken farms and take a conclusion how it is the air movemtent.
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Aziz Sacranie Aziz Sacranie
Consultant
September 26, 2017
Agree with Dr.Penz, instead of focusing on Co2 levels I wold suggest focus on Oxygen. Brooding period and during cold weather are times when the management should be ensuring good air quality in the broiler house. As a rule I recommend one air change every 5 minutes as minimum ventilation.
When minimum ventilation is not provided that is when we see levels of CO2 increase, these conditions will increase humidity in the house as well as bacterial load, in particular Ecoli, resulting in birds looking lazy and sleepy with reduced feed intake. Expect mortality.
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Ashra Ali Qureshi Ashra Ali Qureshi
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
September 26, 2017
I agree with Aziz Sacrani , when appropriate installation and housing is not available for minimum ventilation and adequate fresh air containing oxygen is not brought in to the house with certain air speed with 5 minute recommended cycle timer Co2 accumulates and will result reduced feed intake.
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Dr. Mike Czarick Dr. Mike Czarick
Agricultural Engineer
September 26, 2017
Its great to have an opinion on a subject but first it is important to see what the research indicates:
1980, Reece & Lott (USDA – Mississippi State)
3,000 ppm, 6,000 ppm, 12,000 ppm from 0 – 28 days
3,000 ppm, 6,000 ppm no effect on body weights
12,000 ppm depressed body weights at 28 days

2008, Olanrewaja, Dozier, Purswell, Branton, Miles, Lott, and Thaxton
3,000 ppm, 6,000 ppm, 9,000 ppm from 0 to 14 days
Performance, blood chemistry and heart condition
Increasing from “0” ppm to 9,000 ppm did not affect blood chemistry
Increasing from “0” ppm to 9,000 ppm did not affect 28 and 49 body weight gain or feed conversion
Increasing from “0” ppm to 9,000 ppm did affect mortality most likely due to pulmonary hypertension syndrome (changes in heart).

1) Maintaining a CO2 concentration of 1500 ppm is not realistic, or necessary for poultry growing areas. If you are in a tropical climate and the outside temperature is 90 F and your curtains are fully opened or you have a number of tunnel fans operating then it could be possible but for everyone else again unnecessary and unrealistic.
2) Our research has shown that young chicks spend a fair amount of time sleeping...it is natural...and necessary.
3) Do not worry about oxygen.
4) For most people 2500 to 3500 ppm co2 during brooding is normal.
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Ashra Ali Qureshi Ashra Ali Qureshi
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
September 26, 2017
Thanks for this information Dr.Mike.
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Imran Hassan Imran Hassan
Animal Nutritionist
September 26, 2017
Dr. Mike Czarick ,
Thanks sir.
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Aziz Sacranie Aziz Sacranie
Consultant
September 26, 2017
I have experienced 50% mortality at 10days due to inadequate minimum ventilation.
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Dr. Mike Czarick Dr. Mike Czarick
Agricultural Engineer
September 26, 2017
Aziz Sacranie It was not likely due to high CO2 or Oxygen. CO2 needs to get to around 100,000 ppm to kill a bird...oxygen around 10% - 15 % if I am not mistaken. The most likely cause would be carbon monoxide.
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Aziz Sacranie Aziz Sacranie
Consultant
September 26, 2017
Dr. Mike Czarick Thanks Mike, see you in Rome next month. Aziz
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Dr. Mike Czarick Dr. Mike Czarick
Agricultural Engineer
September 26, 2017
Newsletter on Oxygen that might be of interest.

https://www.poultryventilation.com/tips/vol15/n11
Reply
PILERI PILERI
Sales Manager
September 27, 2017

Dear Professor,
Do you know the North Florida Holstein Tunnel Ventilation?

Reply
Siddiqur Rahman Siddiqur Rahman
B. Sc. A. H. And M. S. in Poultry Science
September 28, 2017
Thanks, Dr. Mike for your valuable information.
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Siarhei Siarhei
Zootechnist
September 29, 2017
Good day to all.
My name is Sergey.
I like your forum, because in good arguments truth is born.
I live in Belarus.
In my opinion, CO2 is a very important indicator, especially in the initial period of poultry growing, since this potential is pawned on this final result (productivity, health, and so on).
In practice, I found that for every landing I always (at any time of the year) use cyclic ventilation. This allows me to maintain CO2 2000-3000 ppm and at the same time reduce to minimum gas generators, and accordingly to minimal costs. I want to note that uniformity in microclimate with such ventilation is much better, and, accordingly, the uniformity of the chickens. And most importantly - we do not use antibiotics when growing at all, although the total number of livestock per month is 1,300,000 chickens.
I apologize for the inaccurate English, I used an interpreter.
Good luck to all!
Sasibo.
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Dr. Hassan Kazim Dr. Hassan Kazim
BSc(Hons)Poultry science
September 29, 2017

Dear, hope you are fine.
You can use minimum ventilation by side fans and use pedestal stand fan by opposite direction which floats your inner air by continuous.
Thanks.

Reply
Denis Caron Denis Caron
Poultry farmer
September 29, 2017
Privet Sergei,
We are I think in the same climate condition than you in Belarus, here in Eastern Canada. Closed houses are sometimes not easy to ventilate. We do antibiotic free chicken as well and conditions in the barn are even more important in this case. We use recirculating fans (hangning fro ceiling, longitudinally pushing air in the barn), 2 for each 3000 square feet to get the air uniform (humidity, temperature and components). Since we did that, we seem to have great performance, uniformity and condemnations.
Cpaciba za subject rackacivat.
Denis
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Siarhei Siarhei
Zootechnist
September 29, 2017
Good day Denis.
Our bird houses are 96 meters long and 18 meters wide. We have different ventilation in poultry houses, there are:
-the lateral air flow, and the end hood;
- an inflow of lateral, and a roof extract;
-the lateral inflow and the exhaust side:
-The influx is roof, and the hood is end.
In all poultry houses at first there were 2 gas generators and 4 accelerating fans. With such a kit in the cold season, gas generators worked for a long time in the initial period of cultivation, which increased the level of CO2 and greatly reduced the humidity, which is bad for chicks in the initial period.
Then we converted to 4 gas generators and 4 accelerating fans, and with transverse ventilation only 3 gas generators.
The booster fans only work together with gas generators or with a temperature difference of more than 1 degree Celsius. This led to a reduction in gas consumption and stability of humidity and CO2.
I'm sorry for the mistakes in English.
Good luck to all!
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Sushil Chandra Sushil Chandra
Master in Poultry Nutrition 1975
October 2, 2017

Hanging fans at every 20 ft at a height of 8 ft does help in improving ventilation and reducing litter moisture, ammonia and co2. It is also observed that during daytime, between 10 am to 12 .30 pm, raise side curtain of the house from bottom to 3 ft level helps in all above issue.
Try this and be happy with your chicken. 
Regards,
Dr. Chandra.

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October 3, 2017

Co2 elevation is most important factor from day one to open side curtains from upper side in open sheds. We improve cross ventilation open curtains there is no birds area also.

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