Organic Acids - A Review
dan hofer good day is the Gallinat recop a water based product?
mike
Pol Tarce it looks organic acids can become nutrients sources for algae or even bio films. The formulation we use in Canada is called Pro-Hydro and contain copper sulfate to fight algae. But, a good cleaning with the proper peroxide product between flocks should get rid of these.
The quality of the water and the water system could play a role, also the use of medications and vitamins could have caused the clogging of your filters, but as said by mr. Paris when you use a proper peroxide product between the flocks, you should get rid of the clogging.
Frederic Paris Thanks for the reply, I think you would want to consult a poultry nutritionist when using pwt, cause of the extra sodium
am also using selko pro hydro, thanks for the advice on the hydrochloric acid, will give it a try.
thanks
If you use fat encapsulated once they often can start to dissolve very late and only support the last part of the destine. As fat digestion starts late. You have other stomach protected acids where the way of production make them only soluble in the destine. And which are proven in more than 100 tests in poultry and pigs. only 1 fat coated one showed good results in the registration in Europe to be approved in the acids.
Only 2 Acids have reached the zootechnical registration in Europe which is nearly comparable with the results of antibiotic growth promoters. Even recent US Trials in gíps shows that they are on the same line. So fat encapsulation can work but there are already some solutions out there which show worldwide to be very good. not one in some regional trials.
George Entz I agree with you, you should always know what the fight is. Chlorine can cause problems too if its dosage is too high. And depending in which area you are chlorine maybe already is present in your water lines. In some areas you have max of chlorine and so adding is not always possible. And chlorine and too much is bad especially for poultry and new research show as well for pigs. organic acid is not organic acid. often there is usage of lactic acid and acetic acid because of the taste and not all can formulate formic acid which is not strong smelling. and some of them are easier to buffer and transport regulations are low. so if you use the wring acid mix and to less than you can see that it feeds the bacteria. I think this is what happened with you. If you are using an acid in drinking water the pH have to be at least 4.5 or below. IN some areas farmers going now toward pH 2 and in poultry 3.8 as there nearly all bacterias cannot grow anymore and the start to pass away. Before the pH of 4.5 some stop only growing and some still can live and grow. So below 4.5 is always a nearly must if you use organic acid in drinking water. But in this discussion there is a lot of different things mixed. Encapsulate one in a drinking water cannot work to do the sanitizing. If they are used they will cough growth, as fat is a source of energy. So we need to separate this discussion if we are talking about drinking water and acid in the gut.
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Srinivasa Farms and Hy-Line: Pioneering Growth in India’s Poultry Market
dan hofer - water line hygiene is but one benefit of water line acidification
pH control of the water can also improve protein digestibility in the crop. Most exogenous feed enzymes (phytase, protease, various carbohydrates) are more active at lower pH. That means they can do more pre-digestion of the crop contents if the bird is drinking acidified water.
It can also help with inhibiting pathogen spread within the barn. Several studies have shown that water acidification during feed withdrawal in preparation for shipping birds to slaughter, can reduce the spread of Salmonella within a flock as birds start eating litter and feather pecking in the absence of feed.
Christian Adu-Gyamfi - Not familiar with that specific brand/formula, but depending on how much of it you have, you may want to have it tested by the manufacturer to see if it is still within specification.
Barring that, If there is not a lot, then you may just want to use it, and check the pH of the water is achieving the intended level of acidification with a pH meter or test strips of some kind. If not, then bumping up the dose to account for potency loss may be a good idea.
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dan hofer - Yeah, I've heard about that before.
Low concentrations of citric acid can serve as a food source for molds and bacteria in the water lines. the concentration needs to be high enough to be lethal. Below that concentration it can cause more problems than it solves.
Try bumping up the dose of citric acid, or switching to a non-citric acid based line treatment. either shorter chain organic acids (formic, propionic, etc.) or an inorganic acid (phosphoric) based product.
@M.C. Fernando R. Feuchter A. - Acetic acid (active ingredient in vinegar) can also be metabolized by some microbiota, but to a lesser extent (in my experience) than citric acid.
One issue that can come up is the rather low acetic acid concentration in vinegar (generally 4 to 6%). Even if you are going to be further diluting the vinegar in drinking water, there is still the cost associated with transporting the water that makes up >90% of the product. You also need to have that much more space allocated for your water treatment set up to allow for the higher volume of product. (hand trucks for moving large 55 gallon drums vs small gallon sized bottles, for example)
From a cost and space perspective, I expect that acetic acid would be better than vinegar, but it will come with more involved worker safety concerns due to the increased potency. It just becomes a matter of priorities.
The Impact of Dietary Electrolyte Balance on Male Broiler Performance Offered Reduced Crude Protein Diets
dan hofer - Hutter is correct that it has many other applications, and its popularity is largely due to ease of handing/shipping. However, it CAN be effective at a high enough dose rate. It can both descale (as he states) and kill bacteria in the lines. That said, there are better, stronger acids for hygiene available.
Myco 5-in-1 PLUS
Luis Fernando Vergamini Luna.
Fermentative effects are driven more by the diet than the acid.
Unprotected acids are absorbed or metabolized vaguely early in the foregut. Effects on the hind gut are indirect, in that they acid affects the foregut, and those effects have a carryover effects on the hind gut - where fermentation occurs. By the cecum or colon, all of the acid added to feed or water is already gone from the gut, or transformed into different compounds.
For protected acids there are some ability to act directly on the hind-gut, but then the foregut and feed/water effects are lost.
dan hofer gut acidification really only happens in the crop/proventriculous. Beyond that point he bird will buffer the digests with pancreatic secretions, regardless of which acid is used. The exception being the use of protected/encapsulated acids, which don’t acidify the foregut, and only the hind gut to the extent they are released from their protection/encapsulation technology.
In essence you have to choose where you want you effect, waterline and foregut, OR hind gut. For hind gut acidification, water is the wrong route of administration. Better to achieve that through acids added to the feed. That is because the technology that controls release usually makes it poorly soluble in water.
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