Discussion created on 06/18/2018

Secondary Infection after Infectious Bronchitis, Became more of an issue than the IB itself

I will be Glad if you help me in this regard, Currently in Pakistan 90% off Broiler Farmer are badly suffering Infectious Bronchitis. Repeatedly Every Year in wheat harvesting season we are facing this problem duration is ‘’March April May and June’’
Most of Farmer is doing Live and even that Killed Vaccine to protect Broiler Bird but nothing work
Secondary Infection after IB, Became more of an issue than the IB itself
Kidney damage, Fatty Liver, Fever, uro-genital tract , E Coli , Reducing Feed Intake,

Although morbidity is very high,

Nothing to do with Bio-Security People are Throwing dead Bird on the Passage everywhere. Environment is highly contaminated with IB Virus


Poor Result of antibiotic [only wastage of Money] No Result, we did Lab Culture also
No- Antibiotic are Responding
Regards

Aftab Anwar
raoaftab@gmail.com
923036668272
Pakistan

Anonymous query
Pakistán
Agricultural Engineer
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June 19, 2018

Many single IBV infections cause mild respiratory signs, relatively decreased body weight, and slightly higher mortality rates. Some broiler flocks experienced IBV infections diagnosed molecularly by real-time PCR and serologically by using ELISA (2x increase of mean antibody titer than expected), the cumulative mortality rate doesn't exceed 8%.

IBV infection complicated with H9 AIV infection resulted in mortality rate from 25-30%, While H9 single H9 AIV infection resulted in 10-15% mortality.

The situation may be aggravated if NDV infection was the complicating agent, resulting in mortality may 50%.

Simply many serotypes or genotypes of IBV may cause mild disease but IBV turns into a giant in the presence of complicating factors.

So,
- Other disease agents should be investigated, IBV infection may not be a primary pathogen.
- IBV present should be serotyped and genotyped to exclude the possibility of detecting vaccine strains.
- Monitor your flocks serologically for IBV, NDV, adeno, H5 H9 at processing age

- Modulate vaccination program according to lab. findings
- Treatment of E COLI infection according to antibiogram, as E-coli notoriously known resistant m.o. try using a combination of two antibiotics.
- Control Mycoplasma if suspected
- Monitor feed for mycotoxins, as they are immunosuppressive and or significantly hurt kidney and liver
- all in all-out system, reducing stocking density could be helpful.

Best Regards


Reply
Jayanth Deshpande Jayanth Deshpande
Prajna Poultry Consultants
June 19, 2018
There is no sigle strain IB vaccine to protect variants present in your area. However, Ma5 from MSD is capable of providing protection against different strains. Spraying the vaccine at hatchery will provide better protection.
Mycoplasma control at breeder level (Tiamulin at 25 mg per kg for 2days every 28 days in laying) produce Mycoplasma free chicks. This will reduce E.coli load in broiler Chicks.
For severe E.coli issues, try bacteriophages (commercial preparations available) through water, they are very specific and control E.coli effectively (prophylactic & therapeutic) and antibiotic usuage can be avoided.
Even phages can be sprayed on hatching eggs in incubators to reduce contamination.
I can provide details on phages
Reply
khaled habeb khaled habeb
Veterinary Doctor
July 2, 2018

Jayanth Deshpande Hi, could you please give details about phages?

Reply
June 20, 2018
Chick quality, vaccination at hatchery DOC, and on day 13, 24 will effective in IB. But routien courses of Antibiotics, VitC, Electrolytes including Na,P cloride is necessary to keep stress away from birds and to avoide kidney damage.
Routien biosecurity, spray/mixing of disinfectant on Water hozi for pads or spray on the pads will contribute.

Actually problem become complex due to Abcence of large dips to disinfect feed vechicle and
Abcence of mortality Dips.
Vaccine works but vaccine handling is a big problem ever. Even Medicine enterprises were not handle it properly. Storage temp. is actually +2 to +8•C so these all matters.
Reply
Mustafa Ezat Mustafa Ezat
Veterinary Doctor
June 21, 2018

Which IB isolated from affected flocks?
which complicated factor such viral infection AI H09 , ND or bacterial MG . e.coli? So you should send sample to monitor your flock by PCR, then you can design good vaccination program to control challenge according to lab result.

All-in all-out, biosecurity measures.

Reply
AHMED ANJUM AHMED ANJUM
Consultant
June 24, 2018

Dear Dr Aftab Anwar

Well said that in Pakistan, every year in wheat harvesting season, we are facing this problem duration is ‘’March, April, May and June’’. In my experience, this respiratory problem is not Infectious bronchitis outbreaks. It is rather related to environment pollution.

In a poultry house, with live birds, the average number of dust particles is generally below 100,000 particles/litre (1 mg/m3), although peaks of dust are always measured during feeding time or mating time when all the birds are very active.

Generally, fine dust particles above 10 µm are trapped in the upper respiratory tract and are cleared (coughed up) by the mucociliary apparatus. However, particles smaller than 5 um are able penetrate deeply and settle in lungs and air sacs.

During wheat harvesting/thrashing season, poultry farms located near thrashing activity, exceed the threshold level of 100,000 particles/litre. It is dust deposition that develops gasping (resembling IB clinically). Outcome would depend upon the amount of dust inhaled. Since dust is not cleared rapidly and signs may persist longer as per amount of dust inhaled. Unless dust is present, no antibiotic works.

One can try expectorant drugs as supportive therapy to clear dust.

Reply
Anonymous query
Pakistán
Agricultural Engineer
June 24, 2018

AHMED ANJUM
Thanks for your valuable comment. Is there any technical solution to save birds in this climate?

Reply
AHMED ANJUM AHMED ANJUM
Consultant
June 25, 2018
Aftab anwar
Yes .. first attempt to reduce exposure to dust. in EC houses, keeping the cooling pads wet as much as possible will catch dust. in open houses, not applicable.

Second attmept ... use expectorant. in our circumstances, glycerrhiza (Mulathi) in feed (my suggestion @ 200 g/feed bag). One can also try human cough syrups such as pulmonal, hydryllin.

Third ... water sanitation (my suggestion chlorine 3 ppm at bird level). This will do most of the job you expect from antibiotics at a much cheaper cost. One can use other commercial preparations as well.

Fourth ... aerial disinfection mightbe useful (although I have not tried it in such cases).
Reply
Bhaskar Ganguly Bhaskar Ganguly
Ph.D. (Veterinary Biochemistry)
June 25, 2018
AHMED ANJUM

Glycyrrhiza glabra acts as an expectorant to clear airways and as a mucolytic. It also has astringent properties that reduce chances of initial infection and anti-inflammatory properties that reduce exudation and damage during the initial infection.

No wonder, it is one of the key constituents of Respzz®.
Reply
Anonymous query
Pakistán
Agricultural Engineer
June 25, 2018
AHMED ANJUM Dear sir I have to spray chlorine 3 ppm at bird level.we have to mix water also
Reply
AHMED ANJUM AHMED ANJUM
Consultant
June 26, 2018
Aftab anwar
I do not know if chlorine is recommended for aerial spray. However, it is generally used in drinking water. I have experienced that if drinking water is properly chlorinated from day-old to marketing, E. coli - a common invader of the respiratory tract, keeps away.
Reply
DR AKRAM H EL OSTA DR AKRAM H EL OSTA
Businessman
June 27, 2018
Also I have an experience in using Mucosol Avi-Mex it works very good in case of clogs in the bifurcation it can change the clog into a mucus whigh also the expectorant effect of mucosol get rid and open the airways and thus reduce mortaliities from suffocation
Reply
Muhammad Kashif Muhammad Kashif
Veterinary Doctor
June 28, 2018
AHMED ANJUM nice to see you sir how are you and family
Reply
Anonymous query
Pakistán
Agricultural Engineer
June 29, 2018
DR AKRAM H EL OSTA AVI-MEX not available in Pakistan, plz guide me what are ingredient of AVI-MEX
Reply
AHMED ANJUM AHMED ANJUM
Consultant
June 30, 2018
Muhammad Kashif
I'm fine. Thanks.
Reply
July 10, 2018

AHMED ANJUM Agree 100%. Aerial disinfection is excellent after as well as before infection disease because it helps against all spectra of microorganisms. I recommend ULV fogging using DynaFog ULV devices (Tornado, Hurricane...). My customers are reaching very good results by iodine and peroxy lactic acid-containing disinfectants in presence of birds in poultry house.

Reply
June 24, 2018

Dear All

My opinion is kindly check the DOC against MG and MS specific on respiratory infection and use Tilmicosin (Poulmotil A/C) which is Elanco Brand and it is very helpful for respiratory infections and useful for respiratory vaccines like ND IB etc to cover all those types of infections you are facing in the field.

Reply
Bhaskar Ganguly Bhaskar Ganguly
Ph.D. (Veterinary Biochemistry)
June 25, 2018
Attempts to manage the primary problem and the secondary complications do not address an extremely important issue -- that of clearing the airways and restoring the ciliary escalator in the nasotracheal tract.

Antibiotics can handle the active infection effectively but fail to manage the remnants of mucosal discharges that form plugs in the airways and serve as excellent nidi for secondary infections.

Respzz® (M/s Ayurvet Limited, India) is a scientifically validated formulation containing 13 herbal extracts and herbal derivatives that:

1) Regulate the consistency of mucus (mucolytic) to ensure proper flushing out of the dust, pathogens, etc. thereby reducing the chances of initial infection and disallowing the formation of mucosal "plugs" in the event of an infection
2) Reduce airway inflammation to decrease the initial damage in the event of an infection
3) Attenuate inflammatory damage to Clara cells and improve Clara cell activity for restoration of the optimum activity of the nasotracheal ciliary escalator.
4) Reduce stress in the birds due to respiratory distress

Clearly, conventional management with antibiotics does not allow any of these benefits. Therefore, use of Respzz® is strongly advocated in susceptible flocks for prevention and supportive treatment of respiratory infections.
Reply
June 27, 2018

Distinguished Aftab Anwar.
First, try to decrease the microbiological load (mo) in the environment. I recommend using 2% iodine in water, sprinkled with a thick drop. This solution in addition to helping with the mo in the environment is an excellent fibrinolytic that will help the birds to control the production of mucus. I do not know the environmental temperatures of your country, so I ask you not to do this handling if high temperatures are reached along with high humidity.
Please, do not forget that to control the infectious bronchitis virus, vaccines prepared from strains homologous to the challenge strain should be used, since there is no cross-immunity between strains, so if they have already performed RT-PCR they should sequence to determine the field strain and from this carry out directed vaccination.
If you suspect that Newcastle disease is also involved, I recommend that you reinforce your vaccination schedule using live attenuated vaccines such as primovaccination and at least 2 vaccinations with emulsified vaccines as reinforcement.
If you control Mycoplasma with metaphylaxis you will also avoid complications with E. coli.

Sincere greetings.

Reply
Anonymous query
Pakistán
Agricultural Engineer
June 28, 2018
Socorro Magdalena Escorcia Martínez thanks dear
Reply
Anonymous query
Pakistán
Agricultural Engineer
July 4, 2018
Socorro Magdalena Escorcia Martínez ,Thanks for your valuable information, its Very useful for me, Currently in Pakistan Environment temp is about 42 c , humidity is about 80% ,
As per your recommendation using 2% iodine in water, sprinkled with a thick drop, 2% iodine .(is it iodine salt sprinkle close to evaporating cooling pad) plz guide me
regard
Reply
Danka Maslic-Strizak Danka Maslic-Strizak
Veterinary Doctor
June 28, 2018

Flocks of hens immunized with IB vaccine virus strains 4/91 MA5 and a much better protection against variant strains of IB virus. Vaccination is done in 1 and 14 days of living with live vaccines in 8 weeks is repeated with Ma 5 and in 16 is a dead - oil vaccine.
An infection with IB virus variant strains arise in laying hens and ovarian cysts oviduct(fallopian tube). I'm interested in whether a certain knowledge whether occurring cysts fallopian tube which is in operation (left) or a paraovarijalnim cysts rudimentary (right) fallopian tube?
Best Regards

Reply
AHMED ANJUM AHMED ANJUM
Consultant
June 30, 2018
Danka Maslic-Strizak
In chicken only left oviduct develops. Right oviduct is rudimentary. In IB left oviduct becomes cystic. Cystic right oviduct has no significance in IB.
Reply
Radoslav Tsenin Radoslav Tsenin
Veterinary Doctor
July 10, 2018
Danka Maslic-Strizak - QX.
Reply
Asghar Baig Asghar Baig
Executive
June 28, 2018

As we know virus involved in this problem, so we should use any immunity booster.

Reply
Danka Maslic-Strizak Danka Maslic-Strizak
Veterinary Doctor
June 29, 2018
Flocks immunized, titers determined by ELISA satisfactory, RT-PSR not detected virus genomes, and the flocks with a false paraovarijan cyst in layer hens and some hermaphrodite.
Reply
June 29, 2018
In our laying hens we have observed that same finding of present right and left oviducts, however, they are not necessarily the result of an infection.
Reply
July 4, 2018

Using organic acid from day-old chicks to end of flock reduce the bacterial load and help reducing secondary infection especially E.coli.

Reply
July 4, 2018
Rashid sohail
I totally agree with you
Reply
July 4, 2018
Distinguished Aftab Anwar.
The use of Iodine is sprayed with an independent device of the cooling curtain
Reply
Mustafa Ezat Mustafa Ezat
Veterinary Doctor
July 9, 2018

Optimum period between IB live vaccine and killed vaccine. What about your opinion to use IB PRIMER to control QX?

Reply
July 9, 2018
Dr Mustafa Ezat

Dear

Excuse me for insisting but it is very important to keep in mind that there is no cross-immunity between strains, even if the pharmaceutical industry makes an effort to ensure otherwise.
If you have the vaccine strain QX you can make use of it, taking care to use metaphylaxis in the case of the possible presence of Mycoplasma, likewise, it is important to use live vaccine in order to generate local immunity (Ig A).
regards
Reply
Danka Maslic-Strizak Danka Maslic-Strizak
Veterinary Doctor
July 9, 2018
You explain the existence of the left and right oviducts?
Reply
July 9, 2018
Danka Maslic-Strizak

They are findings.
Reply
July 10, 2018
Nice discussion
Reply
Danka Maslic-Strizak Danka Maslic-Strizak
Veterinary Doctor
July 11, 2018
Thank you all
Reply
July 11, 2018

There are two schools of thought concerning IB immunization. One sustains the development of new vaccines as new variant strains appear. The main problem with this strategy is that there is evidence it may speed-up the emergence of new variants, a phenomenon clearly explained by Darwinian selection. The other one is the strategic use of antigenically distant vaccine strains which are already in use in order to immunize against a different field strain (Protectotype). This is not a matter of speculation but has been proved scientifically in several papers that have been published in international journals and forums, especially concerning the use of Nobilis IB Ma5 and Nobilis 4/91. This combination has recently received approval for its simultaneous application at the hatchery by spray. There is scientific evidence of this combination’s control of both Arkansas-related and QX-related field strains.

Reply
July 11, 2018
Juan Francisco Rios Cambre

Hello Francisco.
Could you indicate the percentage of protection with the vaccines that you cite as well as the scientific articles that you refer?
Reply
July 11, 2018
Socorro Magdalena Escorcia Martínez Absolutely. Will send by e-mail
Thanks
Reply
July 12, 2018
I appreciate the offer to send the information I request to my address, however, I think it is important that you share it in this discussion forum, mainly because you recommend a vaccine to solve a problem of interest not only for one person.
Reply
David Baquero David Baquero
Veterinary Doctor
July 13, 2018
Socorro Magdalena Escorcia Martínez following your comments
Reply
July 11, 2018


In relation to the two schools of thought and the Darwinian selection, I would like to make the following reflection:
if a challenge-homologous vaccine is used, which has the same genetic information, why would new variants be generated? And on the contrary, using a 4/91 vaccine with genetic information different from the challenge strain QX would not generate new antigenic variants?

Reply
Dr. Beny Perelman Dr. Beny Perelman
DVM, Specialist in Poultry Diseases and Management, Ostrich Medicine Expert
July 14, 2018

Socorro Magdalena Escorcia Martínez
Hi Socorro
IB viruses have a natural tendency for changing, especially in the S1 region.
There is no need for using different variants of IB viruses to get the mutations.
During many many years, all the world used the H-120 IB classic strain to vaccinate. Despite it, many different and new variants developed such as the 793B, QX, IB-Var2 (Israel).
Some of these new viruses are very stable, as in the case of the IB Var-2 that spread in all the Middle East and Turkey, Ukraine, Poland etc.
The only way to control this IB-Var2 was bu using the homologous strain as a live vaccine and up to now, the disease is more or less under control if used properly. Some heterologous vaccines can provide partial protection to other variant IB strains such is the case of 4-91, or IB-Var 2 that have cross-protection against QX isolates from different parts of the world.

Reply
July 16, 2018

Dr. Beny Perelman
I totally agree with you, as your comments confirm what I have referred previously. A homologous strain helps control the challenges.
As you point out, the heterologous strains will only develop a partial protection, that is why I asked the person who claims that strain 4/91 would help the challenges of the strain QX, here my question, which until now has not been answered, is what is the percentage of protection it generates?

Reply
Mustafa Ezat Mustafa Ezat
Veterinary Doctor
July 17, 2018

Socorro Magdalena Escorcia Martínez

All scientific article mention use IB4/91+ MA5 will generate protection against QX challenge from 70-80 % protection.

Reply
July 17, 2018

Mustafa Ezat

I appreciate your fast response.
With a small flock, say 10,000 birds, with 80% protection, 8,000 birds would be protected and 2000 partially or unprotected, provided adequate vaccination coverage is achieved.
These 2000 birds would be leading to the generation of new antigenic variants, this is the risk of not using homologous strains.

Reply
July 19, 2018

Have you take any trial of 70 to 80 percent protection.

Reply
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