Discussion created on 10/26/2018

Mycoplasma gallisepticum vaccine

Dear my colleagues I would be grateful if somebody tell me-
1- the advantage of mycoplasma gallisepticum ts-11 vaccine
2- its limitations
3-duration of immunity and when to count it from start of injection , onset of immunity or when the vaccine reach its peak
regard

Anonymous query
Saudi Arabia
Biologist
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September 8, 2019

I would like to know if there's any problem if we use antimycoplasmal drug in vaccinated flock ts11 if this result in end the protection of the vaccine and when can I use antibiotic after mg vaccination.

Reply
Wijaya Saputra Wijaya Saputra
Veterinary Doctor
August 5, 2020
I have mycoplasma Gallisepticum problem.
DOC layer comes from PS layer infected with MG.
at the age of 1-5 days treated with Tylvalosin, at the age of 15-18 days treated with Tylmicosin and at the age of 28 days an Intraocular application of MG Ts11 vaccine was performed.
Serology monitoring was performed at 10 weeks, 16 weeks, 20 weeks for the purpose of the ELISA MG Test.
Elisa MG 10 weeks: Amean (1918),% Positive: 61%.
Elisa MG 16 weeks: Amean (3549),% Positive: 100%.
ELisa MG 20 weeks: Amean (4114),% Positive: 100%.

There are a number of questions that still hold up for me, namely:
1. Can the MG TS 11 vaccine protect against MG Field ?.
2. Does 100% vaccine positivity mean success in the administration of the vaccine or is there a challenge of infection ?
3. We need to do antimycoplasmic treatment if the Elisa Amean Titers results are < 5000 and 100% positive, if we find 10-15 chickens there are symptoms of sneezing or snoring.

Please advice to me. Thanks.
Reply
Kapil Manwal Kapil Manwal
masters in animal nutrition
August 10, 2020
Wijaya Saputra treat the birds with tiamutin @50 mg per kg body weight for two days followed by every 21 days for two times and once it lower down than every thirty days
if you can combine with CTC it would be better
Reply
Hany Ellakany Hany Ellakany
Professor and vice dean
August 20, 2020
Dear dr. Wijaya Saputra
Seemingly the ELISA titers are not a vaccine titers, because the ts-11 vaccine titers are never ever rise up to this level in 4 weeks period, they diminish or disappear in 4 weeks period. So these titers are infection.
So you have to give antibiotics, preferably after sensitivity test for the MG if possible, otherwise, give blindly a reputable anti-mycoplasmal one.
Reply
Dr Mustafa Ezzat Dr Mustafa Ezzat
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
August 24, 2020
Wijaya Saputra
Dear
according to bio check base line titer MG Elisa titer 1000-3000 and 30-70 serpositive at 6-12 weeks after TS-11 vaccine application so I see this titer and 100 % seopositivity indicate to MG field infection so treat your flock with antimycoplasma and advice you repeat prophylactic anti mycoplasma treatment every 4-6 Weeks
Reply
September 13, 2020
Wijaya Saputra
Serology is useless after live vaccination (and probably killed MG vaccination). There are too many normal responses and perhaps these are modulated by factors other than mycoplasma - like using LaSota.
http://www.bioproperties.com.au/!Pages/Publications/Documents/DOC-Bulletin-2015-02.pdf

See the bulletin. But in Australia nearly all broiler breeders have no serological response to ts-11 while overseas it is very variable. And a waste of money. Every ELISA kit manufacturer will tell you that you will see moderate serological response in 4 weeks.

Using antibiotics on high responding flocks will knock back the ts-11 vaccine and diminish immunity.

Cheers
chris
Reply
Dr Mustafa Ezzat Dr Mustafa Ezzat
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
October 28, 2020
Chris Morrow

thanks for your valuable information
kindly how many weeks Ts-11 still in trachea after vaccination ?
Reply
February 13, 2021
Hany Ellakany and what about broiler prof how long spent to repeat anti mycoplama drugs(does it depends on age or weight of bird?
Reply
Aripin Drh Aripin Drh
Poultry Health breeding Japfa Indonesia
February 21, 2021

Hello Mr. Chris Morrow
How the mechanism of the ND Lasota vaccine can increase the MG antibody response which is quite high when we test with Elisa biocheck? Please explain and if you have an article, could you please link it? Thank you.

Reply
February 23, 2021
Aripin Drh http://www.bioproperties.com.au/!Pages/Publications/Documents/DOC-Bulletin-2015-02.pdf
Reply
Narayan Banik Narayan Banik
M sc in tropical vet science
August 18, 2020

Tiamutin 45 % could not be used in presence of salinomycin. Maduramycin in feed. However, tilmicocin or tylosin or tylovylosin is potentially good drug against MG in early stages of diseases. Your flocked should good antibody titre against MG. For sneezing or snoring, you can apply anti-cough cough syrup or expectorant available in your areas.

Reply
David Burch David Burch
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
February 14, 2021
Narayan Banik - I agree that tiamulin should not be used in broilers with salinomycin as it is incompatible. It is also incompatible with monensin and narasin and can cause growth depression and even death. It only shows a mild transient effect with maduramicin and semduramicin (Islam, Klein and Burch, 2009) and is compatible with lasalocid and the chemical anticoccidials such as narasin. However it is risky to use tiamulin in broilers unless in integrated systems, which can control the food mill and ensure the use of the compatible anticoccidials. This is the main reason why the focus of tiamulin use has been in broiler breeders and layer breeders and layers, where the anticoccidials are not used to treat the infected birds and control the vertical transmission of Mycoplasma gallisepticum and M. synoviae.
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David Burch David Burch
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
February 24, 2021
David Burch Sorry, should be tiamulin is compatible with nicarbazin, it is certainly not with narasin as formally stated.
Reply
February 25, 2021

David Burch, I think when people are using antibiotics prophylactically in poultry they tend to use macrolides, tiamulin, etc in Breeders and Layers in lay. Most coccidiostats are incompatible with laying. Then this leaves them with tetracyclines in broilers for prophylaxis (day 18-22). Of course tetracyclines are difficult to use in lay because of the high Calcium levels in layer feed. The target is MG and MS. Lincospectin orally should be phased out for poultry with respiratory disease as the Spectinomycin is not absorbed from the GIT so you are exposing the gut microbiota to two classes of antibiotics with no therapeutic benefit over lincomycin separately. Ethical pharmaceutical companies should pull this claim of Lincospectin to have any credibility.

Reply
David Burch David Burch
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
February 26, 2021

Chris Morrow, You are right Chris, but things have evolved over time. In the past Chlortetracycline was really widely used in laying hens until they gave it a withdrawal period for eggs, so its use had to stop almost immediately. Tiamulin got a zero withdrawal period for eggs, which then enabled it to be used in layers for MG, MS and also spirochaetes, which caused caecal droppings in commercial layers. Fluoroquinolones were also widely used in broilers as they worked against mycoplasma and secondary infections such as E. coli. This had to change as they were drugs of last resort in man and Campylobacter now commonly carry FQ resistance genes - the US banned it in poultry about 15 years ago. You are right that spectinomycin is hardly absorbed but it was widely used in UK broiler chicks, possibly not for MG prophylaxis, as we were mainly free of it but LS generally helped the survival of chicks, possibly acting in the gut and yolk sac more. I understand, since they have stopped using it (80% reduction in poultry use in of ABs in the UK) they have a slightly higher 1st week mortality rate but overall production continues well - they did not die later. Broiler production has been increasing in the UK to just short of a billion birds/year. You never know LS may come up for further review. Best regards, David.

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August 20, 2020

When MG antibodies titer become high it will decrease MG shedding & innate immunity increases with age but no value for TS-11 vaccine when 60% +ve field infection another point all live vaccines via drinking water - good climate &low stocking density helpful.

Reply
Hany Ellakany Hany Ellakany
Professor and vice dean
August 20, 2020

What are the advantages and disadvantages of live Mycoplasma vaccines?

Reply
Dr Mustafa Ezzat Dr Mustafa Ezzat
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
August 24, 2020
Hany Ellakany
welcome Professor
we have three type from live mycoplasma vaccine such as
6-85 strain
F - STRAIN
Ts-11
so advantages and disadvantages Differ from type will used to other , I summarized as general
Efficacy , protection period , displacement field strain , vaccine reaction , safety ,
horizontal and vertical transmission of vaccine strain

thanks
Reply
Hany Ellakany Hany Ellakany
Professor and vice dean
September 1, 2020

Mustafa Ezat Dear Dr. Mostafa
Thank you for your participation
Do you think the vaccines of mycoplasma could be used in separate projects other than the whole country? I mean is it possible to be used on small scale rather than the whole nation? Especially if there is a lack of good and strict biosecurity?

Reply
Dr Mustafa Ezzat Dr Mustafa Ezzat
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
September 1, 2020
Hany Ellakany
thanks prof. Dr Hany for your discussion
I will share my knowledge in our situation in Saudi Arabia , you know Saudi Arabia is big country and the distance between region and poultry project is very far and bio security procedure is better than applied in Egypt so the discussion according three point related three MG live vaccine
1- lateral transmission
2- vertical or eggs transmission
3- reverse virulence
F- STRAIN is natural moderate virulence for chicken strain have sever vaccine reaction , regarding to lateral transmission of F- STRAIN is detected in few cases within sites and between sites in USA according to OIE so it can transmitted between vaccinated to UN vaccinated birds , but no any published reverse virulence detected for F- STRAIN
TS-11 and 6/85 is artificial attenuated strain , it cant spreed from vaccinated to UN vaccinated birds in some publication vaccinated birds with TS-11 and UN vaccinated birds but separated in pen in same house , not detected vaccine strain in UN vaccinated birds for long periods and regarding to reverse virulence for TS-11 and 6/85 , they are more stable
so it is possible to be used vaccine in separate project with strict bio security measures
lastly MG not air born disuses so mechanical transmission play a big role in infection

thanks
Reply
Hany Ellakany Hany Ellakany
Professor and vice dean
August 21, 2020

What are the advantages and disadvantages of live Mycoplasma vaccines?
Reply
Hany Ellakany Hany Ellakany
Professor and vice dean
September 1, 2020

What do colleagues think about the killed mycoplasma vaccine?

Reply
Dr Mustafa Ezzat Dr Mustafa Ezzat
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
September 1, 2020
Hany Ellakany
killed or bactrin MG vaccine
can administrated s/c or IM
Induce humoral immunity
reduce the decline eggs production
dont prevent infection due to killed not induce CMI which very important for protection
cant displace field strain
decrease vertical transmission rate
so in my opinion the best practice for protection against MG is Combination killed and live vaccine in high challenge area
and please Professor let me I need know your opinion
Reply
September 16, 2020

Well, I think that killed avian mycoplasma vaccines make humoral antibody. In fact, to get registration, they only have to show production of antibody - from the monograph. It is just sort of assumed that it is correlated with protection. So I agree that they can decrease systemic pathology, tracheal populations, vertical transmission but they don't seem to be able to stop infection or vertical transmission. There is no evidence that they provide any protection for progeny and in fact, there is even a suggestion (see Diseases of poultry) that they may prevent some infected embryos from dying and increase vertical transmission - this would not surprise me that MG has worked out how to make the host increase its success.
As for combining live and dead vaccines - it could be that these combinations are antagonistic (Glisson and Kleven 1984). There is a real lack of experimental investigation of live and dead mycoplasma vaccine combinations considering how much is used. Why are there no results of field trials?
I think killed mycoplasma vaccines are an anachronism - live vaccines are clearly more effective and don't have problems like stress, amyloidosis, etc. And they are expensive and have a short duration of immunity.
it would not surprise me if some of the leading market share killed vaccines disappear in the next year. Prediction - you heard it here first.

Reply
October 13, 2020
Chris Morrow

Welcome Dr Chris

you are one of the opt person to be asked clarification.
The very high IDEXX MG titers in production flocks that are vaccinated with TS 11 continuously for 3 years.There is no signs and lesions of it in breeders and progenies.can you explain?
Reply
October 13, 2020
Abdulcader titres often increase after 40 weeks and can be very high in normal flocks.
The only way to investigate if this is
1) Normal - just high titres after 40 weeks
or 2) Field challenge (from a variety of reasons, post vaccination antibiotics, infection before vaccination etc) then you should find field strain.

So you need DIVA PCR - it will detect field strain if that is the problem especially done around the time of serological increase.

http://www.bioproperties.com.au/!Pages/Publications/Documents/DOC-Bulletin-2015-02.pdf

Reply
March 2, 2021
Mustafa Ezzat i use killed and alive in egypt and the problem still
Reply
Wijaya Saputra Wijaya Saputra
Veterinary Doctor
September 1, 2020

Greetings to all colleagues. 
Please, I need advice: I want to know what is the most effective way to get rid of Mycoplasma disease in a breeding farm that keeps repeating where the chickens have been infected with mycoplasma disease, besides removing chicken manure, washing the cage and disinfecting the cage and cage equipment. The disinfectants used are Glutaraldehyde & Benzalkonium Chloride. Thank you.

Reply
January 24, 2021
Wijaya Saputra Is it a multiage farm. If so try moving the rearing to another new farm (change your current rearing sheds into production sheds). Then rear the birds on the new farm and vaccinate them with MG and MS live at 3-6 weeks and then move them to the production farm at 15 weeks. You will get better Mareks control as well as Mycoplasma control. This is what we do in the western world - rear in relative isolation and good biosecurity and prepare the birds for the expected challenge at the multiage production site with the vaccination programme. The new site needs to be more 2 km from other chicken farms.
Everytime we bulid a new multiage site with rearing sheds on it we are condemning chickens and the supervising veterinarians to another 30 years of fighting chicken pathogens that will build up on the site over time.
Reply
Nolito F. Cuerbo Nolito F. Cuerbo
VETERINARIAN
December 27, 2020
How fatal & destructive this MG in commercial chicken layers?
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David Burch David Burch
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
January 21, 2021
There has been very little success in eradicating the infection from a farm without depopulation and cleaning. So saying, success has been achieved in medicating the breeder layer flock and taking the eggs from these birds and using these to set up a clean flock. We used the equivalent of 500ppm tiamulin hydrogen fumarate in feed for a week as a treatment. The tiamulin also passes into the egg, so after the treatment period the eggs can be used for hatching clean chicks. It is easier than egg dipping and egg injection. After a further week you can use 250ppm tiamulin in feed for a week and on alternate weeks for as long as you need to until the flock is culled. The success has been very good, especially in high risk areas where re-infection is likely from contaminated flocks within 1-2 km radius of the farm.
Reply
January 21, 2021
Dear David,
I disagree with your comment that there has been very little success in eradicating the infection [MS and MG] from a farm without depopulation and cleaning but there is the fear that going through such a process will not be worth it if they farm just becomes infected again. In this situation you can look at vaccination as insurance decreasing the risk of waste of effort and money. Part of the problem is the current set up of farms that we inherited are too dense in many areas. Also having rearing on the multiage production site (the solution here is to move rearing off site at least until everything is vaccinated).
I have seen ILT and MS regularly go over 2km in Scotland by airbourne transmission. The distances needed for MS control are greater than MG and the initial guess of 400yards (AA grandparent manual about 1990).
Anyhow propylactic antibiosis in chicken flocks is a real one health problem needing vets to play their part in protecting the efficacy of antibiotics in human treatments. If we are not responsible the use of antibiotics for treatment will be taken off us.
Mycoplasma vaccination
Reply
David Burch David Burch
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
January 22, 2021
Dear Chris,, I could not open you weblink, unfortunately. However there is only one report of the use of tetracyclines over a long period of time that eliminated MG from a breeding flock. There are reports of the use of F strain live MG vaccine to displace wild strains of MG. There is also a problem of marketing eggs/chicks from infected broiler breeder flocks. According to OIE rules flocks should be fee of MG and seronegative. If the flock is within its own breeder and broiler production organisation, i.e. not selling on to third parties, it has to be up to the organisation how it manages the infection to maintain its overall production targets. Unfortunately, in many countries, as you rightly say, is the density of poultry production, farms are often concentrated in one area and are of different health status, so called high risk farms, usually <1 km from other potentially infected farms and are at constant risk of infection or re-infection. The benefit of tiamulin is it passes into the egg and concentrations that can inhibit MG for about 7 days after its therapeutic use and in some cases this has proven very helpful in these high risk farms to produce MG free eggs. All the best David
Reply
January 24, 2021
1) Killed vaccines - live vaccine prortection is much better. The killed vaccines make antibody, and also some people make autogenous vaccines but both are poor value for money.
There is no evidence of synergy with live vaccines and perhaps evidence of antgonism (Glisson and Kleven 1984). These vaccines are being dropped by international vaccination companies.
2) F-strain and 6/85 in layers. -These are better than than killed vaccines. F strains residual pathogenicity in layers can see CRD in vaccinated birds and a loss of 7 eggs per hen housed in the absence of challenge (Carpenter early 1980s). The real problem with these vaccines is they move out of the birds that they are given to. 6/85 progeny has persisted in many UK layer farms for over 7 years after caesation of vaccination. This should be controlled by continued vaccination so progeny strains do not cause problems or eradication with ts-11. ts-11 tends to stay where it is put.
DIVA testing is very popular with ts-11 and MSH but why dont people do it as regularly with 6/85 F strain and K strain. There are tests available. With F strain in breeders you often find it causing problems in the progeny with strain ID testing. For example, Jordan, Egypt, Indonesia, have all had problems with this. The theory that F strain by eyedrop does not go vertical seems odd and a marketing fix to a real problem. Why do the properties of F strain change over time in the literature - surely it is made on a seedlot system.

Cheers
chris
Reply
Paulo Martins Paulo Martins
Veterinary Doctor
January 26, 2021
My experience of a few years - working in the diagnosis, prevention and control of avian mycoplasmosis in industrial poultry - shows me that:
1) Vaccines and treatments for MG were not made to be applied in the broiler production pyramid; you're either free, or you're out.
2) Acquiring birds free of MG and MS and applying heavy biosecurity rules is a key point to control the problem in this chain.
3) In industrial poultry farming of commercial eggs, biosecurity, associated with live vaccines represent the two main control points of MG.
4) Using antimicrobial treatments to control MG, whatever they may be, represents a loss of focus on the activity of producing healthy and quality eggs, loss of money and total irresponsibility with the 21st century consumer.
5) As already informed in the previous answers, for the commercial egg production chain, inactivated or vectorized MG vaccines are not the most effective alternative.
Reply
January 28, 2021

As per my experience with commercial layer, after using F. Strain, MG remains on farm and transfer to other killed vaccinated flocks in that territory, it causes exposure for other flocks resulting in losses.
If all the flocks in same territory are F. Strain vaccinated then its exposure makes the strong shield against MG and helpful for protection. But if any one flock is vaccinated with F. Strain and others are not vaccinated with F. Strain then it causes the occurrence of MG.

Reply
Paulo Martins Paulo Martins
Veterinary Doctor
January 28, 2021
Dr.Waseem Talib

I understand your concern about horizontal transmission of F strain to unvaccinated flocks.

But there are some important points that should be noted when and why using a vaccine with a live sample of Mycoplasma gallisepticum.

On the sanitary conditions of most commercial egg production farms in Latin America, Africa and Asia:

1) There is no use of the "all in - all out" concept;
2) The farms are of multiple ages;
3) The level of biosecurity is not adequate, sometimes nonexistent;
3) It is not uncommon to find more than one age in the same house;
4) Rearing farms are not isolated from production farms;
5) There is no control over the entry of birds and other animals in the houses;

Under these conditions, it is technically and economically indicated to use a live MG vaccine, including F strain.

The eventual losses in number of eggs per hen housed caused by the administration of these vaccines are much less than:

i) the losses observed when using only inactivated and / or vectored vaccines in farms with high challenge present;
ii) the practice of periodic antibiotic treatments on birds in production
high risk to public health!

The use of antimicrobials during the egg production represents a real risk to public health. Each vet has to be held responsible for this.
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January 29, 2021
Paulo Martins yes. Agreed
Reply
Saleem Khan Saleem Khan
Veterinary Doctor
January 28, 2021

Hi Morro & Martins
In layer breeder how many shots of inactivated MG and at which age you recommend with one live F strain vaccine?
Regards.

Reply
Paulo Martins Paulo Martins
Veterinary Doctor
February 1, 2021

Saleem Khan
For layer breeders I do not recommend using any MG vaccines but biosecurity programs.
For commercial laying hens I recommend the use of a live vaccine during the rearing period between 5 to 7 weeks of age, always before field infection. There are colleagues who add an inactivated MG vaccine before it goes into production.

Reply
Saleem Khan Saleem Khan
Veterinary Doctor
February 15, 2021
Paulo Martins
Thank you dear.
Reply
February 1, 2021
How many people use antibiotics after F strain vaccination to limit the vaccine reaction? Is it recommended by the vaccine company.
Reply
Saleem Khan Saleem Khan
Veterinary Doctor
February 1, 2021
Hi Chris,
Not any recommendations of antibiotics by company after vaccines.
However they recommend before live vaccine.
Reply
Aripin Drh Aripin Drh
Poultry Health breeding Japfa Indonesia
February 2, 2021
Hello Mr. Chris Morrow
I have used the MG Ts 11 vaccine for a long time, based on the results of the Elisa Test before 2019 the average mean titters is between 1000-4000, but starting in 2020 with the use of the MG TS 11 vaccine as well, but different batch numbers now result in titter between 100 - <1000 in the Elisa sample aged 28 weeks. Please explain it why this happened. Whether there is a wrong factor or not, both in terms of vaccine storage, vaccine thawing, vaccine application, I used the vaccine at the age of 28 days for broiler breeder chickens.
Reply
Dr Mustafa Ezzat Dr Mustafa Ezzat
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
February 3, 2021
Aripin Drh
Dear Aripin Drth

kindly can you provide us about your Elisa reading 1000-4000that directly after first use TS-11 or these reading from from long period

thanks
Reply
February 2, 2021
Serology is meaningless after vaccination. It could be you have moved or changed your NDV from LaSota to VG/GA. Have a look at my serology bulletin.
http://www.bioproperties.com.au/!Pages/Publications/Documents/DOC-Bulletin-2015-02.pdf

Cheers

chris
Reply
Hany Ellakany Hany Ellakany
Professor and vice dean
February 8, 2021
I shall talk about killed MG vaccine.
My personal experience shows that it can not prevent neither the field infection nor the clinical symptoms.
It can not produce local protection at the trachea and lungs.
It produces high level of EliSA titers.
We can use antimycoplasma safely.
Reply
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