Herbal methionine in broilers - Woo Kyun Kim

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Youssef Attia Youssef Attia
Professor
March 5, 2019
Results are contradictory from different big nutritional labs in the States. One big boss say something different, then more research are needed.
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Rahat Mobeen Rahat Mobeen
M.Phil Animal Nutrition
June 8, 2019
Which product is better?
Liquid HMTBA
DL Meth
L Meth
Herbal meth .

I think HMTBA & L meth are better than others.
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September 12, 2019

Dear all, it seems to me, herbal methionine (better to call it "herbal extract") can replace only methylation part of methionine-betaine methylation cycle. It is possible to do via activation enzymes taking part in both methylation cycle and folate cycle (it is connected to methionine cycle), using a key metabolite tetrahydrofolate (THF). So it's clear why herbal extract doesn't contain methionine. Probably it contains some other biologically active substances. At the moment nobody can answer, what is it. But it works, my customers confirm.

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Dr. Amit Kumar Pandey Dr. Amit Kumar Pandey
BVSc & AH, MVSc.(Veterinary Pharmacology and Toxicology), PhD (Veterinary Pharmacology and Toxicology)
September 16, 2019
Dr. Fiodor is very much correct. It is very important to understand the way amino acids and vitamins are utilized in the body. The process is complex and requires other co-factors to perform the specific required actions. Herbal methionine/extracts actually are the partial bio-activity replacer of the DL-Methionine. It performs its function inside the body. Herbal extract (Methiorep) is the analog of synthetic methionine.
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September 16, 2019
More studies required at sardar
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Martin Smith Martin Smith
Animal Nutritionist
Evonik Animal Nutrition Evonik Animal Nutrition
Hessen, Germany
September 18, 2019
This video is factually incorrect. Methionine is an essential amino acid, meaning that in higher animals it cannot be synthesised; it must be consumed within the diet. Plants and micro-organisms can synthesise methionine.
Whenever a properly designed and conducted comparison trial is conducted, the equivalence of these herbal products is invariably around 3%. In other words, they are NOT effective replacements for any established met source, be that DL Methionine, L Methionine or MHA. Many "trials" reported are clearly not deficient in M+C, or have limits in a variety of other nutrients such as Lysine or energy.I have discussed these points with various herbal product manufacturers and all I ever get are vague suggestions about mode of action. Contrary to Dr. Pandeys comment, utilisation and mode of action for methionine are well understood and clear.
Herbal "methionine" products are not nutritionally equal to established met sources.
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September 18, 2019
5-6 years ago, this topic was very hot in the market. We collected some sample of different sources of Herbal-Met and analyzed them. Although we know the content, but in order to check them in real situation, we conducted couple of well-organized university trials “comparing Herbal-Met and DL-MET “. Herbal-Met had zero effect on chicken performance.
For example analytical report of one the samples of Herbal Met is “CP= 10.49%, Met=0.144%, Cys=0.134% and M+C=0.278% … “even less than normal wheat, that means nothing.
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September 23, 2019
It completly depends on the trial protocols and the intentions behind the trials. They can absolutely replace them. Khon kaen university from thailand have vast studies on the effective results of Herbal Methionine (METHIOMAX). Please refer them.
Also the result depends on the brand one is using. Please select the right source. All herbal methionine is not same.
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September 24, 2019

I think the better way to understand this concept is going to composition of herbal methionine. Claiming mimic activity or biosynthesis means challenging of methionine being non essential amino acid. Methionine being the initiation codon can't be replaced by any amino acid or anything claimed new will surely be discovery worth noble prize. Dr I Ahmad

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Martin Smith Martin Smith
Animal Nutritionist
Evonik Animal Nutrition Evonik Animal Nutrition
Hessen, Germany
September 24, 2019
Reply to Hamid Ibrahim Ismail;
The basis of any meaningful trial to compare sources of a single nutrient must start from a situation where that nutrient is the one limiting the performance parameter being monitored. In this situation we are evaluating methionine (more accurately M+C) and its impact on laying performance ie egg numbers, weight, and total mass. One should usually choose a point in the production cycle where effect on performance might be amplified – for example at peak production.

Here we have 63 week old hens; clearly not at maximum performance and in many situations already deemed to be cull birds; so not meeting the latter criteria above.

Feed intake is below breed specification (Hyline Brown Management Guide 2016). This is assumed to be a “Layer 4” diet and so intake is expected to be about 100 – 110 g. Average feed intake is 87 g, so very low; and the variation in intake over the trial period is excessive.

Production is poor. Breed specification for the period is between 84% and 81 % HD; compared to an average of 70.5%.

Nutrient levels are shown in the table below.
Nutrient Stated* Estimated Hyline** Hyline 90g***
Energy MJ/kg 11.36 10.66 11.50 12.70
SID Lysine 0.79 0.39 0.76 0.84
SID M+C 0.60 0.50 0.64 0.71
SID Threonine 0.31 0.53 0.59
SID Tryptophan 0.13 0.16 0.18
SID Arginine 0.82 0.79 0.88
SDI Isoleucine 0.41 0.59 0.66
SID Valine 0.49 0.67 0.74

*Amino Acids stated are not defined as total or SID
**Nutrient levels for feed intake of 99g
***Nutrient levels re-calculated for intake of 90g

From this analysis we can see that all nutrients are significantly lower than specified. In particular are the very low energy and Lysine levels. A further complication is the use of a high inclusion supplement (“Layer Max Care”) with no clear definition of nutrient supply. Another problem is that the lysine source is not clearly defined. In this analysis it is assumed to be Lysine Hydrochloride. If Lysine Sulphate was used, the lysine value estimated above would be lower.

So if we consider the criteria for a meaningful trial above, this trial fails because;
1. All nutrients are potentially limiting performance
2. The investigated nutrient therefore is not determining performance
3. The production phase chosen is unlikely to produce any clear result
4. Variation in feed intake points to poor management and/or external factors influencing the trial

This trial clearly does not illuminate this discussion. If you care to contact me, I can help you design the correct type of trial.
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