Special Nutrients
Engormix
  /  
Poultry Industry
  /  
Forums
  /  
Nutrition

Tryptophan requirement of 22 to 34-week-old caged-laying hens
Video information
See more
remove_red_eye 1383 forum 17 bar_chart Statistics share print
Share :
close
Juarez Donzele Juarez Donzele
Professor
February 21, 2020
Dr Mike, for a better understanding of the work, I would like to ask you to kindly inform us what was the relationship between methionine + digestible cystine with the digestible lysine used in your diet to assess the level of tryptophan. With my thanks
Reply
Mike Persia Mike Persia
Associate Professor
February 25, 2020

Juarez Donzele,

Great question, this experiment was a classical requirement experiment so both D Lys and D SAA were supplied in excess of the hens requirements so that Trp would be the limiting nutrient for egg production.

Mike.

Reply
Juarez Donzele Juarez Donzele
Professor
February 25, 2020

Dr. Mike, I appreciate your prompt reply. In this case, the tryptophan requirement must be established in grams/day, making no reference to its relationship with lysine. Do I think correctly?

Reply
Mike Persia Mike Persia
Associate Professor
February 26, 2020
Juarez Donzele

Yes that is correct.
Reply
Juarez Donzele Juarez Donzele
Professor
February 25, 2020
Dr Mike, I forgot to point out that due to carelessness, I am absolutely sure, the use of the isomer D of lysine in the feed of the birds was mentioned, which certainly did not occur. This is because, as you know, lysine in this isomer is not used by birds. Even methionine, I believe it must have been used as a mixture of D and L (DL) isomers. Carelessness like this happens quite often.
Reply
Dr. Andreas Lemme Dr. Andreas Lemme
Evonik Animal Nutrition Evonik Animal Nutrition
Rellinghauser, Hessen, Germany
February 26, 2020

Dear Juarez Donzele, I have to admit that I haven't followed the entire discussion herein but noticed the statements on D-isomers of amino acids. Indeed, the nutritional value of D-Lys (and others) is very limited in farm animals and therefore all supplemental amino acids - except methionine - are available as L-isomer only. Methionine indeed behaves different and as the D-isomer of methionine is highly, if not completely, available as building block to farm animals, the racemate of D- and L-methionine has become the gold standard in animal nutrition. Moreover, even if given as D-methionine only, transformation into animal performance is as effective as with L-Met. BR Andreas

Reply
Mike Persia Mike Persia
Associate Professor
February 26, 2020
Dr. Andreas Lemme

In this case D is my short hand for digestible Lys or digestible Met, not the l or d form of the amino acid. Sorry for the confusion.

Best regards,
Mike
Reply
Nelson Ruiz Nelson Ruiz
Chemist, MS, PhD
September 1, 2020

Dr. Andreas Lemme Dr. Lemme, would you please help me with the literature reference(s) supporting the concept that D-methionine has similar biological activity as DL-methionine, and perhaps as L-methionine? It would be highly appreciated.

Reply
Juarez Donzele Juarez Donzele
Professor
February 26, 2020
To Drs Andreas and Mike, for the experience and professional competence of the authors, I have no doubt that the restrictions we made on the article are fully known to you. What really happened was a carelessness in the preparation of the matter, which can occur with any .
Reply
Dr Valeriy Kryukov Dr Valeriy Kryukov
Doctor in Biological Sciences
April 15, 2020
Dr. Andreas Lemme
Indeed, DL-Methionine has received a wide and recognized distribution. However, the fate of the D isomer is not well understood.
I established 30 years ago in an experiment on broilers that DL-Methionine induces cytochrome P-450, which is responsible for the metabolism of foreign compounds in the body. This fact explains the decrease in the toxic effect of aflatoxin on chickens.
In General, DL-methionine will "unexpectedly" affect a number of processes in the body for those who do not know about the induction of cytochrome P-450. The effectiveness of drugs, cholecalciferol and a number of other additives in feed.
Reply
OGUNWOLE, OLUGBENGA OGUNWOLE, OLUGBENGA
BSc Hons MSc PhD
April 17, 2020
Dr Valeriy Kryukov This is a profound contribution which served to reverberate the cardinal roles of methionine in detoxification of toxins in vivo. I only want to add that the sentence be modified to indicate that cytochrome P-450 is one of the veritable means of such metabolism of foreign compounds except perhaps there are no alternative metabolic paths. This contribution is an apt contribution and an impetus to upcoming scientist with interest in methionine metabolism
Reply
Dr. Fiodor S. Marchenkov Dr. Fiodor S. Marchenkov
April 21, 2020
Dr.OGUNWOLE, OLUGBENGA Yes, it is, but there is another explanation. Methionine is not direct detoxicant. But (similar to betaine) it plays important function in liver methylation cycle and protect liver cells against osmotic stress. Thus, it protect liver hepatocytes and makes better methabolic condition for hepatocytes cytochrome-P 450. So, direct detoxication enzyme is P-450 oxidase, and direct anti toxin molecule is oxygen.
Reply
Rose Whelan Rose Whelan
Senior Manager Animal Physiology Research
Evonik Animal Nutrition Evonik Animal Nutrition
Rellinghauser, Hessen, Germany
March 29, 2021
Dr Valeriy Kryukov this is indeed a very interesting finding! My understandign was that the sulfur amino acids could support xenobiotic detoxification through the glutathione and the glutathione-S-transferase system. However, this is downstream of cytochrome P450 so I was not aware that dietary methionine affected this earlier step.

Could you please share a citation for your paper, I would love to read it.

Many thanks for this interesting discussion!
Reply
Juarez Donzele Juarez Donzele
Professor
April 22, 2020
Valeriy Kryukov, interesting and important for your information regarding the specific action of D-Methionine in the induction of cytochrome P450. In this case, in regions with a high incidence of mycotoxin in the feed ingredients, especially corn, the efficiency of the use of DL-Methionine by birds should not be greater than that of L-Methionine. This considering, farms with low level of health challenge, with limited use of drugs. Is this reasoning correct?
Reply
Dr Valeriy Kryukov Dr Valeriy Kryukov
Doctor in Biological Sciences
April 22, 2020
Just the opposite! DL, methionine induces P-450. As a result, Cytochore p-450 increases the detoxification of mycotoxins
Reply
Juarez Donzele Juarez Donzele
Professor
July 18, 2020
Dr Valeriy Kryukov, I believe that I was not understood, because what I deduced was exactly what the Lord stated as correct, However, your consideration is that my deduction would not be correct
Reply
Amin Nahla Amin Nahla
Specialist in Animal Nutrition
July 4, 2022
if my diet corn soya diet content requirement of tryptophan enough can add tryptophan to diet to increase production
Reply
1
print
(1383)
(17)
Engormix reserves the right to delete and/or modify comments. See more details
Post a comment
Create new discussion :
If this discussion does not cover topics of interest or raises new questions, you can create another discussion.
Create new discussion
Consult a professional in private:
If you have a specific problem you can perform a consultation privately to a professional in our community.
Dr. Sahil Kalia, Ph.D.
Dr. Sahil Kalia, Ph.D.
PhD, Postdoc, Cornell University, USA
  Ithaca, New York, United States
Contact us
See other professionals
Professional Services
Nelson Ruiz Nelson Ruiz
Atlanta, Georgia, United States
Abdullah Scott Abdullah Scott
Fayetteville, Arkansas, United States
Dr. Sahil Kalia, Ph.D. Dr. Sahil Kalia, Ph.D.
Ithaca, New York, United States
Utsav Prakash Tiwari Utsav Prakash Tiwari
Chino, California, United States
Go to Professionals Guide
Novus International
Evonik Animal Nutrition
LIPTOSA
AlzChem
BioResource International, Inc.
VICAM
Phileo by Lesaffre
Special Nutrients
Life Rainbow
Hangzhou DE Mark Industrial Co Ltd
INSTA-PRO International
Poultry Science Association
 
Advertise on engormix
Terms and Conditions
Privacy policies
Copyright © 1999-2023 Engormix - All Rights Reserved