Dr. Marcos Rostagno speaks on the challenges and tendencies in reduction of antimicrobials in poultry

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September 27, 2016
Customers are very sensitive on the use of antimicrobials in poultry. The use of probiotics are highly recommended by certain feed companies. Farmers complain about gut problems in broilers. The nutritionists and poultry vets will have to look for the proper additives to control the gut problems.
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Marcos Rostagno Marcos Rostagno
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
September 27, 2016

Thanks for your comment, Dr. Ismet Mamode. I agree with it. Something that needs to be kept in mind is that antimicrobials are very important tools for veterinarians to manage animal health and welfare. Therefore, we must use them in a responsible and prudent way, and not just think on how to replace them. I do think all the products that are increasingly becoming available in the market (probiotics, prebiotics, essential oils, acidifiers, etc.) should be thought of as complementary and contributors to the rational use of antimicrobials in animal production systems. New technologies will continue to help generating additional tools to accomplish our goals as professionals of the animal protein industry. Once again, thanks for your contribution. Regards. MR

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October 4, 2016
Since human and animals exist in the world, we have the necessity to use antimicrobials (specifically, antibiotics).

We never forget about the importance of consciuos and acucios use of antibiotics. I think that products as prebiotics, probiotics, organic acids, enzymes, etc must be complementary to the rational use of antimicrobials in animal production systems, instead of first line solution

I am complained about the posible react by bacterial survival mechanisms. Is it the way to induce any other response to resistance?
Thanks
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October 5, 2016
Thanks a lot for your comments. In broilers, I do prescribe an antibiotic treatment for CURATIVE PURPOSES only. I make sure that there is a long withdrawal period which the farmers will have to respect. Previously, we were doing the Antibiotic Residual tests in broiler meat to ensure that the product is free from antibiotics. Customers are now focussing on IONOPHORE coccidiostats. In broilers, the coccidiosis vaccine is expensive and there has not been a full protection. Well, let us hope that with the modern technology, our young scientists will come up with new products that will satisfy the customers
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Andres Ortiz Garcia Vao Andres Ortiz Garcia Vao
Veterinary Doctor
October 5, 2016

I cannot resist temptation to comment some points from our experience. I will use an example of a good friend to explain my position. Feeding broilers in many places worldwide, as it was 10 years ago in EU, sounds not "logical": imagine a room plenty of people, and one door is opened entering a waiter with nice food. Everybody will be fed, happy and even there will be reproduction between them. Then another door is opened and someone with a gun begins to shoot people inside room, later again more food is available, and later again more bullets are shot. Now change people in the example by bacterias (in general) in the intestine of a chicken, and change guns by antibiotics (growth promoter). Feeding and killing- feeding and killing...

When we started to think how to substitute GPA because they were banned, first we thought was to kill as an antibiotic.... is not possible.... but even with them, if you review your reports in veterinary field treatment because enteritis and similar, you will see they were not perfect! They failed too as alternatives (pro&prebiotics, acids,enzymes...) available can. Don't look for a silver bullet ... doesn´t exist, and didn´t exist.

There was a prediction done in 2005 about future of technical results without GPA ...and nothing was right! Broilers one year after being banned GPA were growing in very similar way as they were one year before. And nowadays, 10 years later, with different alternatives being proved, broilers are improving genetic standards, I would say that today we are more worried by carcass quality than for DWG, FCR, mortality...because everyone is getting good marks in.

Don´t look for silver bullet, use what you have as alternative depending of which is more reasonable for you and thinking bacterias are not bad, we need them to develop completely:" Full maturation of gut inmune system requires a complex flora. However, the precise composition of an optimal flora is still unknown”/ In mouse, is clear that nutrients and fermentation products also influence funcional status of the mucosal inmune system" (Kaspers 2015).

So maybe, modulation microbiota, balance host-guest is the key, try to choose wich bacterias you want because chickens (and us) need them... And for geting this target all production system must be involved: we have reviewed since 2006 all formulations of diets, raw material quality water, temperature-ventilation in housing, management of day old chicks. We have spent a lot of bullets looking for some factors that allow us complete activation of digestive physiology... but to produce with less antibiotics than today, can be done.

Many times we are creating the situation for imbalance microflora, f.ex. regular or bad thermostabiltiy enzyme used, too many antinutritional factors in raw materials...we are creating a situation for undesired bacterias that will consume nutrients and antibiotics.

A lot of things to do, but life exists after.

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Sataluri Satagopa Raja Ayyangar Sataluri Satagopa Raja Ayyangar
B .Sc ( Mathematics , Physics and Chemistry ) ; P G Diploma in Environmental Studies ; P G Diploma in Industrial Pollution Management ; Industrial Chemistry ( B I E T )
October 5, 2016

How long we can support antimicrobials as they are at one stage they are not able to act .The health of end user will be disturbed due to traces of antibiotics. Use of Antibiotics in prawn is an example by which the trade effected.

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October 14, 2016
I would like you to give your opinion about the effect of some of the alternatives to AGPs, more specifically probiotics on quorum sensing of bacteria as it is generally believed that antibiotics successfully control this mechanism. Will probiotics have the same effect?
Reply
Marcos Rostagno Marcos Rostagno
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
October 14, 2016
Dear Tahir Mahmood,
You pose a very interesting question on controlling quorum sensing. I confess I do not have the answer to this question, but do have my own perspective on it. I'm not sure antimicrobials successfully control quorum sensing, as our knowledge about this mechanism of communication between bacterial populations is still in very early stages. I do agree it exists and that it is fundamentally important. However, I don't think we currently know enough to determine if any of the available interventions (antimicrobials, probiotics, or any other approach) is capable to "control" quorum sensing. We still struggle to define the composition (let alone the "ideal" composition) of the microbiome, despite all the technological advances. In my opinion, until we are capable of understanding the real function of each group of microorganisms in the microbiome, we will continue to progress through "trial and error" attempts. In other words, if we are to manipulate the microbiome with any intervention available, we need to go way beyond the simple description of the composition or profiling the microbiome. Unfortunately, I don't think we are there yet. I hope this comment is helpful. Regards. MR
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October 14, 2016

First of all, I shall be thankful to you for such a detailed answer. I believe that replacing AGP with probiotics completely or in parts may look rosy momentarily but time will arrive soon when the resident bacteria in the GIT will develop immunity against the antibacterial toxins supposed to be released by probiotics. In addition, many proposed mechanisms of action vis a vis probiotics make situation more compounded. I think nutritionists should focus more on striking out a balance between beneficial and pathogenic bacteria through dietary manipulation. Perhaps, mix of organic acids pre- and probiotics would serve the purpose but then again commercial constrains can hamper their use. What is your take on future approach?
Regards,
Tahir
PhD Animal Nutrition

Reply
Marcos Rostagno Marcos Rostagno
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
October 14, 2016
Dear Tahir Mahmood,

I think you are spot on about the importance and opportunity of using dietary modulation of the microbiome. I do believe that a lot of the inconsistent results observed with the use of most alternative interventions (ie., pro, pre, symbiotics, EOs, org. acids, etc.) is not due to the product itself, but in fact to the lack of attention to the formulation/composition of the diet in use at the moment. As I mentioned in the original interview in this forum, it is possible to raise animals with reduced use of antimicrobials (ie., with only disease-associated use - prevention, control, treatment), as long as a series of variables are controlled (eg., husbandry/management, environment, biosecurity, hygiene, etc.). In my opinion, one of the key factors to the success of any animal production system, and in particular, of any production system aiming at using minimum antimicrobials, is the diet, through nutrition (ie., diet formulation), as well as feeding management. Thanks for your great questions! Regards, MR.
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October 14, 2016
Dear Rostagno, Thank you too for sparing time and answering my queries. I shall really appreciate if you keep me in loop in future on this topic at any forum. Below is my email Id for your information, please.
tahir472@gmail.com.
Regards,
Tahir
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Hossan Md. Salim, PhD Hossan Md. Salim, PhD
Animal Nutritionist
October 16, 2016
Dear all,

How are you! I have some research experiences for finding alternatives to antibiotics by using DFM, Organic acids, and Chlorea as a algae products. In these feeding trials, I found the same growth performances from both AGP and alternatives groups. So, I think, we dont need to use antibiotic as a growth promoters in poultry but we should look after and ensure the bio security in the farms premises as well as provide bio-safety in feeds. In addition, dont forget about the necessary vaccination for improving the immunity of the birds. Hopefully, we will produce AGP free chicken for the consumers.
Have a great day!

Dr. Salim, Poultry Nutritionist
Reply
Sataluri Satagopa Raja Ayyangar Sataluri Satagopa Raja Ayyangar
B .Sc ( Mathematics , Physics and Chemistry ) ; P G Diploma in Environmental Studies ; P G Diploma in Industrial Pollution Management ; Industrial Chemistry ( B I E T )
October 16, 2016

Healthy Environment in the Poultry farm is most important. Free space, No. of birds, Regular removal of litter, and rubbish and quality of drinking water to be monitered .Over crowed will definetly hamper the health of the any creature in cage system.

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Samuel Aziegbemhin Samuel Aziegbemhin
Biologist
October 16, 2016
Beautiful insight!
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October 17, 2016
Great discussions from all you. I liked very much my dear friend Andrés´comment/example on how we use to feed and kill bacteria thereafter with AGP. Reality is such that all these tools mentioned by you all can help, but with a good sense in its utilization. Moreover also mentioned, management, sanity, environmental conditions are of key importance. I come from the swine sector, yes, sorry about this, and in my experience years ago when in Denmark, back in 1999, started to feed pigs without antibiotics, the most common feedback from Nutritionist and people in the field was that specially those younger farmers were doing things better; why, you may ask yourself? Simply because they started from scratch, clean minded and for them the logical way of raising and feeding pigs was by means of the other alternatives plus an excellent management of the farm. Cheers from Madrid, Spain.
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October 19, 2016
Dear Rostagno,
Can complete removal of antibiotics from feed lead to antibiotic free chicken meat? I think the antibiotics supplied through feed being large molecules are not absorbed in the birds body through intestinal absorption sites. The problem lies with those antibiotics which are injected directly.

Regards,
Tahir
Reply
Marcos Rostagno Marcos Rostagno
Doctor of Veterinary Medicine
October 19, 2016
Dear Colleagues,

First of all, thanks for the great discussion, and for sharing your perspectives. I reinforce the comments from our colleague, Rafael Duran. In general, there is more than just "switching overnight" from using antimicrobials to their removal from production systems. It is a process, and it needs to be progressively developed, detecting challenges and adapting accordingly. However, the mindset is key, being it based on a change of the way of thinking, or as mentioned, a new way of thinking (as in the case of young/new or even "clean" minds). Undoubtedly, nutrition plays a critical role, as we need to keep in mind that when we are feeding the animals, we are also providing substrate (ie., feeding) the intestinal microbiome.

Specifically on the comment posted by our colleague, Tahir Mahmood: Please, be careful with the use of the term "antibiotic-free chicken" or "antibiotic-free meat", as it causes some confusion. Antimicrobial molecules (many of them - not all) can be absorbed through the intestinal tract, and accumulate in different tissues of the body. Therefore, the risk of residues is not limited to injected antimicrobials. However, if the labels are followed, and in some cases, the withdrawal period is respected (whenever required for a specific molecule), there should be no risk of antimicrobial residues. By following the labels, we can assure that all meat or poultry is in fact antibiotic-free (ie., with no antimicrobial residues). In my opinion, the appropriate term that we should use is "raised or produced with no antimicrobials", avoiding to use "antimicrobial-free" to minimize confusion. I hope this explanation is clear and helps you.

Thank you all for contributing to the discussion! Please, keep them coming!

Best regards to all,

MR
Reply
October 20, 2016
Dear All,
I came across a useful article that further sheds light on the use of alternatives to antimicrobial. The concept of SEED, FEED and WEED really appeals me. Below is the link of that article:

http://www.worldpoultry.net/Health/Articles/2016/8/Antibiotics-and-bacteria-The-right-balance-2852396W/?cmpid=NLC|dairy_global|2016-10-18|Antibiotics_and_bacteria:_Finding_the_right_balance

Regards,
Tahir
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October 22, 2016
I do agree with Dr. Marcos, the use of antibiotics in the animal industry in general, rely on the ethics of the producers. If the label is not followed and the withdrawal period is not observed, residues can not be eliminated. The use of herbal products is meant to stimulate the immune system and improve the gut condition to reduce microbial load in the gut and improve FCR.

Salah Eldin
skype abusohail93
Reply
October 22, 2016
Dear salahEldeen,
The use of herbal products in broiler studies yield variable results so it is quite difficult to give a conclusive evidence of their effect in poultry.
Tahir
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