Discussion created on 08/04/2018

How can we nutritionally maximize true milk protein and milk fat of dairy cows?

Components at certain times of the year increase (autumn/winter) or decrease (spring/summer), Is it possible to maximize components year round? What nutritional components could address my problem?

Lorenzo Quesnel
Dairy producer
remove_red_eye 1539 forum 46 bar_chart Statistics share print
Share :
close
Umberto Francesa Umberto Francesa
Veterinary Doctor
August 8, 2018
Lorenzo,
it has been demonstrated that dairies with high yields, milk solids like protein and fat can be improved by nutrition.
Amino Acids like lysine and methionine and its relationship between them is the focus of attention during the past years.
I would recommend you talking to your nutritionist about it.
Reply
August 8, 2018

Umberto Francesa
I would agree, but we are going back and forth as the amount of in grams for either methionine or lysine but we do think 3/1 lysine to methionine is where we should be.

Reply
Umberto Francesa Umberto Francesa
Veterinary Doctor
August 8, 2018

Lorenzo Quesnel you meant Met to Lysine. Anyway that relation means nothing if the other ingredients in the ration do not considered all the essential amino acids.

Reply
August 9, 2018

Umberto Francesa
Would Histidine levels also be influencing the components? Do you have respect for the Cargill MAX ration balancing program?

Reply
Umberto Francesa Umberto Francesa
Veterinary Doctor
August 9, 2018

Lorenzo Quesnel, I think those two amino acids play a big roll in the equation The difficult part for the nutritionist is to get the relation 3:1 consistently right, in the practice is impossible due to the variability involved.

In New Zealand, they came up with a different approach to increase solids in milk by genetic selection and crossing their own Holstein Kiwis, with Jerseys and other European breeds. Milk volume has been reduced, but that doesn't matter to them since their system always have been based on intensive grazing.

Reply
August 10, 2018

Umberto Francesa Cross breeding is a long term solution. We are looking to impact our cash flow soon, we have 1000 milk cows today and could use the cash flow. Do not give up on us.

Reply
Umberto Francesa Umberto Francesa
Veterinary Doctor
August 10, 2018
email me a copy of the last rations for the month of July, for the high group, fresh cows and close ups.

um52@msn.com
Reply
Cheruiyot Ayub Cheruiyot Ayub
Student
August 17, 2018

I am following this discussion, kindly share with me the ration too.

Reply
Dr. Kapil  Gupta Dr. Kapil Gupta
Veterinary Doctor
August 22, 2018

Hi Lorenzo Quesnel ,

STEPS FOR BALANCING AMINO ACIDS LYSINE AND METHIONINE IN DIET:
1. Calculate metabolizable protein requirement for cow.
2. After Metabolizable protein calculation actual lysine and methionine requirement are calculated as per NRC recommendations.
3. Lysine requirement -7.2% of MP (Metabolizable protein calculated)
4. Methionine requirement-2.4% of MP (Metabolizable protein calculated)
5.Calculate the available Lysine and methionine in TMR.
6. Calculate the additional requirement of Lysine and methionine = Total Requirement-Available in TMR.
Now you can calculate requirement in gram.

Reply
August 22, 2018
Cheruiyot Ayub I would need your email address !
Reply
August 25, 2018

Dr. Kapil Gupta How could we calculate the lysine or methionine balance based on calculated MP only? MP amino acids composition varies depending on the RDP and RUP profile of the TMR.

Reply
August 27, 2018

Dr. Kapil Gupta How can we calculate the available lysine and methionine in TMR? It is a theoretical calculation according to forages, protein sources, grains composition or chemical analysis?

Reply
Tariq Mushtaq Tariq Mushtaq
Specialist in Animal Nutrition
October 19, 2018
Umberto Francesa I don’t understand the logic behind 3:1 when we don’t know what is composition of rumen microflora and what type of proteins they’re converted into.
Reply
Cheruiyot Ayub Cheruiyot Ayub
Student
February 23, 2019
Lorenzo Quesnel sorry for the delays, I have been out for a while. I don't know if you can trace this and share with me please.
Reply
August 16, 2018

Does anybody have practical advice for the dairy farmers like me, whose only roughage source is corn silage. And which amino acid we should add to our ration for 40 kg per day milk-producing dairy cows? Which amino acid are deficient in corn silage based rations? Dear friends, please give some advice. Knowledge is power and more powerful when shared with who had not. Please share some thoughts or experiences with amino acid balancing. God Bless you all.

Reply
August 22, 2018

Jagdish Singh Sandhu Sir, I know you have lot of knowledge about nutrition balancing but if you are using silage as per my knowledge you should use lysine and methionine in 5:1 ratio in TMR basis.

Reply
Dr. Nauman Raja Dr. Nauman Raja
Animal Health Technologist
August 22, 2018

Narinder Singh Sir, 3:1 isn't enough?

Reply
August 22, 2018
Dr. Nauman Raja if we read then ratio is 3:1 but when you practically do with 5:1 and see the result
Reply
Dr.channegowda H K Dr.channegowda H K
Animal Nutritionist
August 22, 2018

Dear Jagadesh Singh Sandu,
Normally amino acids like lysine or methinine are not added in dairy cow rations in India because they are going to be broken down in rumen. Only protected amino acids are used in developed countries. Evonik has got some products having protected amino acids but not selling in India.
My experience in Punjab area tells me that, up to 50 litres production amino acids are not necessary.
Please review your feed formulation or TMR formulation. Check DMI and CP and starch levels in TMR. Also check for R;C ratio. Please talk to Mr Gulab Singh of CPF India Pvt ltd, Moga, Punjab.
He may be of helpful to you. In punjab silage has more moisture: more than 70% (70-80%)
So your cows may be eating more but not meeting the DMR. Protein requirement: 1g/kg B.W. and 90g/litre of milk. Please check these

With Regards
Dr Channegowda MVSC
Consultant Veterinary Nutritionist
Mysore

Reply
Ratan Sukhadeo Jadhav Ratan Sukhadeo Jadhav
B.V.Sc.and A.H .;M.Sc.Extention.
August 25, 2018

Dr.channegowda H K if we feed 1g CP per kg BW and 90 gm per lit production this much protein in HF cows there is a problem of blood urea nitrogen level and it hampers fertility also feeding more corn silage acidosis problem. Please advice.

Reply
September 4, 2018

Dr.channegowda H K Hi Dr, can I have your contact details as I have a 100 cow dairy farm and need some advise
on nutrition for my animals.

Regards/Arun

Reply
Dr. Kapil  Gupta Dr. Kapil Gupta
Veterinary Doctor
August 22, 2018

Hi Jagdish Singh,

Balancing of amino acid is very much important in cow's diet to reduce feed cost and production cost for highly yielding animal. It becomes important for country like India, where good source for protein supplements are not available.

Whatever cow eat it breakdown in rumen and rumen bacteria grow and produce microbial protein with the help of degradable protein and fermentable energy. This microbial protein reach to intestine and available to absorb by blood in the form of amino acid., So we can say feeding of rumen protected amino acid is important rather than feeding of undegradable protein.

Sir, You have to add lysine and methionine are first limiting amino acid for cow. The cow's protein production is limited by the particular amino acid that is in shortest supply in relation to her requirement. That amino acid is called the "first-limiting" amino acid in the diet. You have to use or add only Rumen Protected Metioninr and lysine in Cow's TMR. You have to maintain the 3:1 for Lysine and Methionine in metabolizable protein.


STEPS FOR BALANCING AMINO ACIDS LYSINE AND METHIONINE IN DIET:
1. Calculate metabolizable protein requirement for cow.
2. After Metabolizable protein calculation actual lysine and methionine requirement are calculated as per NRC recommendations.
3. Lysine requirement -7.2% of MP (Metabolizable protein calculated).
4. Methionine requirement-2.4% of MP (Metabolizable protein calculated).
5. Calculate the available Lysine and methionine in TMR.
6. Calculate the additional requirement of Lysine and methionine = Total Requirement-Available in TMR.

Reply
Dmitry Preobrazhensky Dmitry Preobrazhensky
General Manager
August 24, 2018

Dear All, please pay attention to the product line of elagotannin-consist range with essential oils, acetate Na, and organic Zn: transit protein up, clostridia and somatic cells down, milk yield and milk protein up. We use it in different farms more than 3 years.

Reply
Dr. N.r.sarker Dr. N.r.sarker
Animal Nutritionist
August 24, 2018

Selection of basal diet important is important for dairy cattle nutrition. If your basal diet is maize silage and it is harvested at appropriate stage and if you balanced concentrate having same bypass protein like fish meal then it can support 40-50 litre milk producing dairy cows. Rumen microbes have the capacity to synthesize essential amino acids if the diet is balanced with requiring nutrients with good quality basal feed.

Reply
August 24, 2018

If we add rumen protected protein, can we reduce crude protein percent in diet?

Reply
Dmitry Preobrazhensky Dmitry Preobrazhensky
General Manager
August 24, 2018

Vasant (Gowardhan) Butala Sure. That is one of the benefits. Plus you could avoid acidoses by decreasing of concentrates.

Reply
Dmitry Preobrazhensky Dmitry Preobrazhensky
General Manager
August 24, 2018

At the same time alive yeast product in 10g dose able to improve protein by 0,1-0,2%. Usually, it takes 3-4 weeks.

Reply
Asifa Sarwat Asifa Sarwat
PhD biotechnology
August 24, 2018

As it was absolutely important to have rumen-protected methionine and lysine, then how can we do this? What materials are beneficial to coat these important amino acids? Technology involved? Do we only go for Nanoparticle technology or there are much easier and economical ways to do coating of amino acids?

Could anybody guide me for this in the forum?

Reply
August 24, 2018

I am working for the last 45 years as a dairy consultant around the world in hot environments (desert, tropical and sub-tropical) with pure dairy cattle and cross. According to my experience the main incidence of the variability of the Fat and Protein in the milk is due to the type of breed and cross, the influence of the weather conditions and the feeding.
Using crisscross system as Holstein/Jersey or Holstein/Reed Swede and Holstein/RS/Montbeliarde the solid in the milk are much more stable in comparison with pure Holstein or similar breeds except Jersey.
In some experience in Pakistan with pure Holstein using Lysine and Methionine (from commercial brands) and in different doses and corrals of 120 cows each an average of 45 lit (same farm, formula and management) was not any evidence in the productivity or milk composition, and the fluctuation of the milk solid was similar in comparison with the corrals not treated.
When we evaluate the climatic conditions was noted that the moisture and temperature (moisture 80 to 90% and temperature +40 cent) have a direct influence on the fluctuation of the milk and composition. But this fluctuation is much less in the crisscross dairy cattle. Also noted that in dairy farms with pure Holstein in desert conditions the milk fluctuation is much less and more stable than in tropical and sub-tropical conditions, also if the temperature arrive to 45 degree or more.
In the feeding process, need to point out that the main factors noted is related to the Soybean Meal type and quality, (we need to remember that the soybean quality is influence from the cultivation to the processing) as an example that the soybean meal coming from USA or Argentina are the best quality for this reason. The selection of the soybean for feeding have an important role because is linked to the amino acid (need to remember that in the marked are different type of soybean), then the best is when the bypass arrives to 40% or more.
Formulation where the forage is limited to the use of only corn silo never will complete an appropriate balance of the feeding because will not fulfill the rumination process required by the cows, as well will not complete the bacteriological activity required into the digest system.
Cows are a rumination machine and need to respect this function to complete the nutritional balance. In the checkup of the cows after feeding I will advise having a 60% of the cows in rumination process, and the observation of appropriate manure conditions.
Alfalfa hay, corn silage, some wheat straw, selected soybean meal, DDGS, yellow corn, cottonseed whole, plus some other complementary feed and additives with cross cows, will be more than sufficient to produce 40 lit average. And is a good way to maximize the milk production.
I will not worry about Lysine and Methionine if I can formulate a good balance formula and I have a good performance of the genetic. Non-pure breed but good milking cows in hot environments.

Gustavo Pourraid
AgriConsultAS LLC

Reply
Ratan Sukhadeo Jadhav Ratan Sukhadeo Jadhav
B.V.Sc.and A.H .;M.Sc.Extention.
August 26, 2018

Gustavo Pourraid
Yes, I also like this response. Good combination.

Reply
CGENGETAI GWIZA CGENGETAI GWIZA
Student
August 30, 2018

Thank you so much, it was helpful

Reply
Mr.Frank Mensah Mr.Frank Mensah
Agriculturist
September 4, 2018

Dear Sir/Madam,

We are interested in your product, please can you send us your product classification/specification and prices list.

Your product details, minimum order, terms of payment and preferably your product catalog with detailed specification.

MR.FRANK MENSAH,
FRANK MENSAH INVESTMENT AGENCY,

Reply
August 24, 2018

I like very much this topic, thank you.

Reply
September 4, 2018

Looks written by a very very practical livestock farm manager who has experienced all these changes and recorded every variation. If I had to write on this topic, I would have concluded in almost same write up.

Reply
Dr. Nauman Raja Dr. Nauman Raja
Animal Health Technologist
September 5, 2018
Hafiz Wasi Muhammad Khan no doubt
Reply
Sharma Madan Lal Sharma Madan Lal
B.V.Sc & AH
September 4, 2018

Very well narrated. I stess for 200 - 500 gms of bypass fat per animal yielding 40 lt and above to meet out the energy requirements. Hot climate reduces the feed intake and aminal exhibits symptoms like panting. We must immediately condense the feed by increasing the bye pass fat and proteins. I am consulting the high yielders farm for last 40 yrs.
Another important aspect is water intake. Animal must have taken 5-6 lt/ litre of milk and in addition 40 lts for metabolism. If it does not take that increase salt up to 3% of concentrate.
Improving and maintaining high production is a continuous activity and need almost daily attention.

Reply
September 5, 2018

Thanks for such a good topic. Soybean meal can be replaced by Roasted Guar Korma because it is higher in fat and also protein. Please guide for this.

Reply
Dr. Brijesh Gupta Dr. Brijesh Gupta
Bachelor Of Veterinary Science & Animal Husbandry
September 5, 2018

As high yielders are fed high plain of nutrients with concentrate rich diet and there is every possibility of Ruminal Acidosis with high plain of concentrate and low roughages diet. It will be better if we supplement these high yielders with Rumen buffer along with yeast. The corrected ruminal environment will take care of optimum Milk Fat and SNF.

Reply
September 5, 2018
Dr. Brijesh Gupta What buffer in this case of high yielders.I have not tried Mervit Buffer + of Nuscience.
Reply
Ratan Sukhadeo Jadhav Ratan Sukhadeo Jadhav
B.V.Sc.and A.H .;M.Sc.Extention.
September 6, 2018

Dr. Brijesh Gupta
is there are any product with Buffer and yeast so that we can try. I am thinking to give magnesium oxide to reduce mild acidosis.
Anybody can suggest.

Reply
September 7, 2018

Ratan Sukhadeo Jadhav My experience tells me 4 parts Mag Ox, * 8 parts S Bicarb Total to equal12-14 ounces W/ 15-20 gm of live yeast maybe as a hand add.

Reply
Viswanatha Reddy V N Viswanatha Reddy V N
Veterinary Doctor
September 11, 2018

Ratan Sukhadeo Jadhav
Probably adding 2% of sodium bicarb in the feed can be cheaper or mix equal quantity of sodium bicarb and magnesium oxide. Aviod grains in very fine flour state. If total mixed ration is not possible, feed green fodder after 30 minutes concentrates if dry stover is fed wait for 1hour to feed concentrate. This is what I advise farmers with 1 to 10 cows.

Reply
September 6, 2018

I think if you use buffer + yeast + essential oils + yucca, then you will get better results.

Reply
September 9, 2018

Dear Gustavo Pourraid
Thank you very much, it was great.

Reply
CGENGETAI GWIZA CGENGETAI GWIZA
Student
September 13, 2018
Thank you very much for your ideas
Reply
February 28, 2019

Sir, please, tell me what is the ideal feed formula for balancing amino acids.

Reply
1
print
(1539)
(46)
Would you like to discuss about this topic: How can we nutritionally maximize true milk protein and milk fat of dairy cows??
Engormix reserves the right to delete and/or modify comments. See more details
Post a comment
Create new discussion :
If this discussion does not cover topics of interest or raises new questions, you can create another discussion.
Consult a professional in private:
If you have a specific problem you can perform a consultation privately to a professional in our community.
Dr. Steve Blezinger
Dr. Steve Blezinger
Nutrition and Management Consultant
  Sulphur Springs, Texas, United States
Professional Services
Jeffrey Bewley Jeffrey Bewley
Elizabethtown, Kentucky, United States
Dr. Steve Blezinger Dr. Steve Blezinger
Sulphur Springs, Texas, United States
Jasmer Singh Jasmer Singh
Rocklin, California, United States
Guy Boisclair Guy Boisclair
Woodbridge, New Jersey, Estados Unidos de América
 
   | 
Copyright © 1999-2019 Engormix - All Rights Reserved